King Jon Targaryen I Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I have seen arguments on the boards on the theory that Jon may get with Arya or have sexual feelings with each other. Wow that sounded wrong :dunce: but anyhow I really don't see it has incest because it would be his cousin correct? Though I can understand the argument because that would be his first cousin but didn't Rickard Stark marry his first cousin has well. Someone actually brought up this new historical parallel of Jon being Jaehaerys the Conciliator and Queen Alysanne being Sansa but this was on a reddit, I have seen the Visenya one with Arya has well just want to hear your thoughts on this one. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Theoretically, if R+L=J is true, Jon marrying Arya is perfectly legal. It is quite common in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Targaryen I Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Theoretically, if R+L=J is true, Jon marrying Arya is perfectly legal. It is quite common in Westeros. Yeah I just see people on the boards losing saying its incest and that can't happen just because even though we have the Targaryen dynasty -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It was never the question of legalities, it is the question of how they feel for each other. At this point, I doubt there is a plausible way for GRRM to morph what either one of them feels for each other into romantic and sexual emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man from Nowhere Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Kevin bacon is married to his first cousin, it's not actually that rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man from Nowhere Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It was never the question of legalities, it is the question of how they feel for each other. At this point, I doubt there is a plausible way for GRRM to morph what either one of them feels for each other into romantic and sexual emotions. Read the post up atm. There's loads of literature to support more than a sibling love relationship. No morphing necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Read the post up atm. There's loads of literature to support more than a sibling love relationship. No morphing necessary. What literature? I am sorry, but if anyone can claim that what has been happening between Jon and Arya have been romantic or sexual, they need to actually learn the difference between romantic and sibling love. Apparently, these days those two are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Jon and Arya were going to be developed differently. In the books we have, there is nothing romantic between them. In the books that could have been, who knows what could have happened. GRRM doesn't really seem that much disturbed by incest, so... to me, looks like Arya was going to fall for Jon even before he was revealed as R's kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man from Nowhere Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 What literature? I am sorry, but if anyone can claim that what has been happening between Jon and Arya have been romantic or sexual, they need to actually learn the difference between romantic and sibling love. Apparently, these days those two are the same.read the significance of Jon/Arya relationship part 2 post. My point is not that they have a romantic relationship atm, but that their is plenty of references in the text, particularly the first few books to suggest that there may eventually be one or that if there were to be a relationship, one could look back and realise that there were hints of a more than sibling love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 read the significance of Jon/Arya relationship part 2 post. My point is not that they have a romantic relationship atm, but that their is plenty of references in the text, particularly the first few books to suggest that there may eventually be one or that if there were to be a relationship, one could look back and realise that there were hints of a more than sibling love. I have read and as I say people really need to differ sibling love from romantic one. Just to be clear, Tyrion loving Jaime doesn't mean they had intercourse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllOfTheHours Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I find the idea of Jon/Arya (and Jon/Sansa) to be so complicated. Clearly in the original outline GRRM was game for it. So it is possible. But Arya just seems too young to have a compelling romantic story develop between her and Jon before the end of the series. And I feel like if it didn't develop on paper organically no one would buy it. Maybe a sequel where they are aged up 5 years? As it is an 11/12 and an 16/17 just makes me feel ill, but this is ASoIaF so anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It would be on a psychological level of the Westermark Effect: people raised together in close proximity since a young age almost never develop sexual feelings or marry each other, because it has the same effect on the brain as being raised with a sibling. I can see where "remnants" of the pairing lingered in GRRM's writing, but my reading of the text is that GRRM imprinted most of those feelings and dynamics onto Gendry as a part of his "gardening" approach. Once Arya didn't reach the Wall, and once Jon found himself set on a course toward heroic martyrdom, the relationship as a romantic one left the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Jaehaerys I more closely resembles Tyrion than Jon, and oh look he's married to Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauis Julius Caesar Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 What literature? I am sorry, but if anyone can claim that what has been happening between Jon and Arya have been romantic or sexual, they need to actually learn the difference between romantic and sibling love. Apparently, these days those two are the same.I can't have been the only one who got a bit of an awkward weird feeling in an arya POV when she was thinking about Jon. They were quite intimate and tender thoughts for a sister to have about a brother. I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Crow Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am one of the people who feel that the story may still be on track for a Jon/ Stark girl romance; however, I don't think we have enough information about Queen Alysanne to say that Sansa resembles her. I do like the connection between Jon and Jaehaerys. With Jon I can see the resemblence. He is attempting to reconcile the wildlings with the Nights Watch and also he has an intellectual sidekick. Jaehaerys I more closely resembles Tyrion than Jon, and oh look he's married to Sansa. Do you mind elaborating on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Arya is actually not that similar to Visenya. They have more differences than similarities including the fundamental difference of kinslaying. I don't think Sansa is similar to Alysanne either. She was a fine archer and hunter in her youth, and loved to fly atop her dragon to all the distant parts of the realm. Alysanne was slim of waist and small of breast, with a long neck, a fair complexion, a high forehead.Arya is the one who is interested in hunting and archery although I don't think Arya is similar to Alysanne either. She is similar to Daena. The world of ice and fire describes her as high-spirited which I don't think fits Sansa. She does fit the intelligent and charming but so do lots of Westerosi women.. She hasn't shown any interest in changing things for women in Westeros nor the NW. I think that comparison was made mainly because fans want her to be a queen, have power, and be loved like Alysanne was rather than anything that indicates a similarity. Margaery actually took on that role instead when she was loved by the commoners for however long she will have their approval. Back to Arya I think romance was completely cut from her story but her love with Jon is still very important and he is still the most important male in her life. ETA: I actually don't think her age matters. I said that in another thread. But I think the Mercy chapter shows just because Arya is too young to be doing something it doesn't mean that would stop GRRM. She's also only a year younger than Dany was when she got with Drogo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Do you mind elaborating on this.A great traveller and lover of travel, visited the North/wall, first he was not a warrior then GRRM seems to have changed his mind in TWOIAF and now he's a decent warrior, great builder of drains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidsa Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I don't really get why people say Arya/Jon is incest, because they feel like siblings, but Jon/Sansa is perfectly fine because Sansa called him half-brother? They grew up together just the same. Just because they don't think of each other that much doesn't mean they don't also love each other (as siblings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yes, hooking up with someone who you grew up with as your sibling and considered your sibling all your life is incest, legal or not, and whether or not you consider cousin marriage to be incestuous - and also, it's extremely rare and unlikely to have sexual feelings for someone you grew up thinking as your sibling. Which Arya and Jon don't. Come on. Not everyone is Jaime And Cersei. Trying to pretend it's not incest just because someone may tell you one day: "oh, her father is not actually your father, her aunt is your mother!" is ridiculous, as is expecting two siblings to suddenly decide: "I'm really adopted? We're just cousins? Let's hook up!" :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And oh dear, yet another "let's randomly compare Jon, Arya or Sansa to some long dead historical Targaryen they have nothing to do with, as proof of incoming Starkcest" thread? Even for this forum, "they both like music/swords/whatever, therefore they are both going to fuck their sibling" is too crackpot and silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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