Red Typer of Dorne Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Do the names the Jon and Stark children give their Direwolves Foreshadow the events in the their lives? I'm sorry if this has been done before but hears my take on it and some possible predictions for the future, these are just ideas please don't think I'm stating them as facts. Ghost- A ghost is a lingering energy or imprint of some one who has passed on. At the end of ADWD we leave Jon Snow having been stabbed and possibly dead have been betrayed by some of his brothers in the nights watch. GRRM has stated that Jon will find out the truth of his parents which suggests he will survive or return from the dead- Foreshadowed? Lady- Sansa's Wolf is killed in the first book, I don't believe this necessarily foretells Sansa's death, but rather the death of her innocence. Before Ned kills her on the kings orders he thinks to himself that Sansa had named Lady well. She was the smallest of the litter, gentle and trusting, just like Sansa at the time. I also find it interesting that it was Sansa's father that kills Lady and it could be argued that it's Allaynes 'father' Littlefinger who finally opens Sansa's eyes to the 'Game' killing the innocent girl. Grey Wind- I'll admit this one has me stumped, the only thing I can think of is that winds can be strong and forceful but also die suddenly and without warning. This could foreshadow Robb's rise to King of the North and sudden demise whilst seemingly unstoppable. It's a stretch I know, if anyone has a more plausible idea please feel free to insert here. Shaggy Dog- http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/shaggy-dog-story.html defines a 'shaggy dog story' as a lengthy, improbable and often pointless story. Rickons story is a long one, and with Manderley seeking to use him to raise the North again, as a youngest son it's also an improbable one, but will it be pointless? If Bran were to reappear, he would have a better claim to Winterfell and any titles (King of the North) than Rickon that could render Rickon story pointless in so far as the dangers he faces will be for naught. Nymeria- The only wolf named after a historical character, a warrior forced to lead her people from their home drifting from place to place before finally finding somewhere to belong. Sound familiar? Arya, struggles throughout ASOIAF to find 'her pack', so far she hasn't, will she find her way back to Jon as per original story plan? or possibly end up with Gendry, finally uniting Stark and Baratheon. Arya has worn many names but she has never forgotten who she is, just as the descendants of Nymeria and her people (The orphans of the Greenblood) still remember their roots on the Royne (spelling?). Summer- In a world where winter is feared, summer represents hope and an end to danger/struggle, will Brans re-emergence from his training with BR signal the end of the struggles of winter? will he have some sort of power to stop the others?I have held the belief since first reading ASOIAF that Bran will play a large part in ending the winter and saving the world. So what does everyone think? Can anyone fill in any holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Typer of Dorne Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 double post sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilEye Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Shaggy Dog- http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/shaggy-dog-story.html defines a 'shaggy dog story' as a lengthy, improbable and often pointless story. Rickons story is a long one, and with Manderley seeking to use him to raise the North again, as a youngest son it's also an improbable one, but will it be pointless? If Bran were to reappear, he would have a better claim to Winterfell and any titles (King of the North) than Rickon that could render Rickon story pointless in so far as the dangers he faces will be for naught. Rickon's story is a long one? He's essentially served a minor supporting role in Bran's chapters for the first two books, and then all but disappeared for the next 3, with a mention every once in a while to remind the reader that he exists. He simply isn't prominent enough (so far,) for his story to be considered a true shaggy dog story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Rickon's story is a long one? He's essentially served a minor supporting role in Bran's chapters for the first two books, and then all but disappeared for the next 3, with a mention every once in a while to remind the reader that he exists. He simply isn't prominent enough (so far,) for his story to be considered a true shaggy dog story. I think he meant a long one from a hypothetical sense. Even though Rickon hasn't been an integral part of the story, his story arc has been a long, drawn-out one that has spanned the entire books, and is now starting to come to fruition in ADWD. Why does he even exist? What's his purpose? GRRM easily could have easily not created Rickon from the get-go and the story would not have suffered.... ...Unless he plans on using him as a Red-Herring (or shaggy dog) in the final two books. RIckon is essentially a pointless character that GRRM is bringing back into the main story arc for some purpose, but when it's all said and done, Rickon will just be that...a pointless character who we believed would play a bigger role than he ends up playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Typer of Dorne Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think he meant a long one from a hypothetical sense. Even though Rickon hasn't been an integral part of the story, his story arc has been a long, drawn-out one that has spanned the entire books, and is now starting to come to fruition in ADWD. Why does he even exist? What's his purpose? GRRM easily could have easily not created Rickon from the get-go and the story would not have suffered.... ...Unless he plans on using him as a Red-Herring (or shaggy dog) in the final two books. RIckon is essentially a pointless character that GRRM is bringing back into the main story arc for some purpose, but when it's all said and done, Rickon will just be that...a pointless character who we believed would play a bigger role than he ends up playing. Much clearer than I put it , thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin's Roost Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think the Ghost name is the hardest to explain, and shaggydog do to not enough info. Grey Wind- to add to what you said. its a strong force but really there isn't anything tangible there. Robb might have seemed strong but really all his power rested in others (freys karstarks etc.) in the end you saw Robb was just all force but nothing sustainable. Lady- obviously the lady like qualities of sansa. but I think you can compare it to when lady died so did sansas ladylike qualities start to dwindle. this was sansas first encounter with the truth of how things are. she had to lie for joffrey when he was in the wrong and lady got killed when she didn't do anything. I think GRRM was trying to show this idea of story book life for Sansa at that moment started to begin chipping away. great job tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWood Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Love this post! I always thought the name Shaggy Dog sort of fit Rickon's personality, just like his wolf does; untamed, wild, not quite matured yet. The personality of a very rambunctious little boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 "Grey Wind" is another way to say "Ghost".Just another of the links between Robb and Jon.If you don't understand, read Varamyr's chapter again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Nymeria wasn't a warrior. She was a war leader as in a commander of an army/people. He said this a while back in an SSM. That makes more sense for Arya because she can command Nymeria's wolves. I doubt the foreshadowing is complete. She doesn't have a real connection to Dorne and I don't see a marriage to Trystane. Nymeria was willing to marry strategically to save her people which Arya would have had to do had Robb married that Frey girl and she still had to marry Elmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Nymeria was named after a storybook version of the historical personage where she is either a warrior or witch queen. The real Nymeria was likely none of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Great post! I agree with most of your ideas with Nymeria and Arya I could see Arya returning to lead a group, perhaps the common people as she can now identify with their hardships/powerlessness (if thats a word) and/or the great wolf pack that Nymeria is leading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naseridrl Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Nymeria triumphed over adversity. She lost her homeland but found another one and brought peace, prosperity and safety there for her people and herself. Everyone may see her now a some warrior witch queen whatever, but ultimately Nymeria was a survivor who found a home for herself after her former home was lost. Arya has lost her home maybe she'll find another one somewhere and make it a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britully Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 As to Shaggydog, Rickin is currently on Skagos, full of unicorns. In that world, unicorns are described as shaggy. (Can't remember exactly where in the books it says that). Is that the shaggy link for Rickon's story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Do the names the Jon and Stark children give their Direwolves Foreshadow the events in the their lives? I'm sorry if this has been done before but hears my take on it and some possible predictions for the future, these are just ideas please don't think I'm stating them as facts. Ghost- A ghost is a lingering energy or imprint of some one who has passed on. At the end of ADWD we leave Jon Snow having been stabbed and possibly dead have been betrayed by some of his brothers in the nights watch. GRRM has stated that Jon will find out the truth of his parents which suggests he will survive or return from the dead- Foreshadowed? Lady- Sansa's Wolf is killed in the first book, I don't believe this necessarily foretells Sansa's death, but rather the death of her innocence. Before Ned kills her on the kings orders he thinks to himself that Sansa had named Lady well. She was the smallest of the litter, gentle and trusting, just like Sansa at the time. I also find it interesting that it was Sansa's father that kills Lady and it could be argued that it's Allaynes 'father' Littlefinger who finally opens Sansa's eyes to the 'Game' killing the innocent girl. Grey Wind- I'll admit this one has me stumped, the only thing I can think of is that winds can be strong and forceful but also die suddenly and without warning. This could foreshadow Robb's rise to King of the North and sudden demise whilst seemingly unstoppable. It's a stretch I know, if anyone has a more plausible idea please feel free to insert here. Shaggy Dog- http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/shaggy-dog-story.html defines a 'shaggy dog story' as a lengthy, improbable and often pointless story. Rickons story is a long one, and with Manderley seeking to use him to raise the North again, as a youngest son it's also an improbable one, but will it be pointless? If Bran were to reappear, he would have a better claim to Winterfell and any titles (King of the North) than Rickon that could render Rickon story pointless in so far as the dangers he faces will be for naught. Nymeria- The only wolf named after a historical character, a warrior forced to lead her people from their home drifting from place to place before finally finding somewhere to belong. Sound familiar? Arya, struggles throughout ASOIAF to find 'her pack', so far she hasn't, will she find her way back to Jon as per original story plan? or possibly end up with Gendry, finally uniting Stark and Baratheon. Arya has worn many names but she has never forgotten who she is, just as the descendants of Nymeria and her people (The orphans of the Greenblood) still remember their roots on the Royne (spelling?). Summer- In a world where winter is feared, summer represents hope and an end to danger/struggle, will Brans re-emergence from his training with BR signal the end of the struggles of winter? will he have some sort of power to stop the others?I have held the belief since first reading ASOIAF that Bran will play a large part in ending the winter and saving the world. So what does everyone think? Can anyone fill in any holes? i actually think the opposite is true: that the names of their direwolves symbolize what the children have lost, in a sense Ghost: Jon loses his life Lady: Sansa is abused and beaten into losing the "lady" in her, the "properness," as she slowly becomes a player Grey Wind: Words are wind, and Robb frequently proclaimed himself king in the north, who's metals were iron (grey). Robb's words were wind, and he lost Shaggy Dog: Shaggyness implies fur, a coat, armor, I think Rickon loses his namesake, and loses the protection that the noble "Stark" name gave him, aka losing his "fur." Nymeria: Nymeria was a heroine, well-renowned for her exploits. Famous. Arya has been working hard, to lose her Stark name, and become "no one." To lose, her identity, as opposed to fame. Summer: heh. Do I need to? ;) Prepare for a cold, grim future.. Also, Bran was in fact, a sweet summer child. He's since grown up a little, losing the 'summer' quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The names represent how the kids see themselves: Summer--Bran's optimism. He believes that he will fly, despite being paralyzed from the waist down.Lady: Sansa's "ladylike" qualities.Nymeria: Very powerful woman, warrior or not. What Arya wants for herself.Ghost: A thing that doesn't belong on earth, the way Jon doesn't feel like he belongs at WF.Greywind: Something that is stern, powerful. How Robb sees himself.Shaggydog: Undefined, as Rickon is too young to have defined himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Rickon's story is a long one? He's essentially served a minor supporting role in Bran's chapters for the first two books, and then all but disappeared for the next 3, with a mention every once in a while to remind the reader that he exists. He simply isn't prominent enough (so far,) for his story to be considered a true shaggy dog story.A lot of readers believe that Rickon is the second coming Brandon Stark, and that he will lead a bunch of ass-kicking, cannibalistic, unicorn-riding Skagosi to bring down death and destruction on anyone and everyone who wonged House Stark. More seriously, House Manderly has high expectations for young Rickon and his black direwolf with the green eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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