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Astronomy of Planetos II: The Bloodstone Compendium


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It makes me sad how insane this is. Your analysis has the mask of reasonableness because you have some of the well known legends in Westeros mixed into it. The reason why it is insane is because the crux of it is something that is briefly mentioned in the WOIAF. The WOIAF had a lot of filler and is not a driver for major plot. Sure many of the important plot lines that were discussed in the WOIAF were also discussed in the books, but not all things that were discussed in the WOIAF were discussed in the books, and things that were ONLY mentioned in the WOIAF will not be plot drivers. Not every single line has meaning. Put yourself into the shoes of the writers, you can't have every single line of the book have meaning. RR Martin tries to make the books resemble real life and make sense, that is why they are so relatable. In real life, not everything is connected, and not everything has hidden meaning. Additionally the WOIAF was not even written by Martin. The stuff about "heliotrope" is actually insane. I'm not saying this to bring you down, but I honestly thing you need to abandon writing about these theories and put your creativity towards something different, perhaps creating your own fictional world.

Well actually, myth stuff is present widely in ASOIAF and just expanded on in TWOIAF, so Martin had that all in the head before TWOIAF was written, and also, all of the Far East and myth stuff is written by Martin, Ran himself told us so.

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Far more charismatic, like mix of the two with the extra knack for applied cruelty.

Barbossa is very charismatic, moreso than Sparrow imo, at least in the first movie. "You best start believing in ghost stories, you're in one" could totally be a Euron line imo

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Barbossa is very charismatic, moreso than Sparrow imo, at least in the first movie. "You best start believing in ghost stories, you're in one" could totally be a Euron line imo

Yes, he is but it's not the sort of trust gaining, personal magnetism kind of thing.

And Euron looks great, he has unconventional but extremely good looks.

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It makes me sad how insane this is. Your analysis has the mask of reasonableness because you have some of the well known legends in Westeros mixed into it. The reason why it is insane is because the crux of it is something that is briefly mentioned in the WOIAF. The WOIAF had a lot of filler and is not a driver for major plot. Sure many of the important plot lines that were discussed in the WOIAF were also discussed in the books, but not all things that were discussed in the WOIAF were discussed in the books, and things that were ONLY mentioned in the WOIAF will not be plot drivers. Not every single line has meaning. Put yourself into the shoes of the writers, you can't have every single line of the book have meaning. RR Martin tries to make the books resemble real life and make sense, that is why they are so relatable. In real life, not everything is connected, and not everything has hidden meaning. Additionally the WOIAF was not even written by Martin. The stuff about "heliotrope" is actually insane. I'm not saying this to bring you down, but I honestly thing you need to abandon writing about these theories and put your creativity towards something different, perhaps creating your own fictional world.

Now I realize the problem with my theory - I am totally insane and didn't realize it! Thanks for letting me know!

Don't worry, this hasn't brought me down at all... I was hoping for at least one "dude you're crazy!" type of comment. Nice job!

The crux of this theory - the comet, the destruction of the second moon, and the forging of Lightbringer - are all introduced by the end of the prologue of book two. The Gemstone Emperors - book one. Nissa Nissa and Azor Ahai - book two.

LOL re: George didn't even write TWOAIF

What is sad here is how badly you have underestimated George RR Martin, likely one of your favorite writers, and how much of what he has done that you will miss out on. Do you really think George just grabs gemstones out of thin air to name emperors after without considering their symbolic significance? If so, you may have really been missing out on quite a lot.

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No, Euron is interested in power and has no qualms about cooperating with anybody as long as he gets more of it. He is not quintessential Ironborn, he is far beyond that, maybe he is egoistic and ruthless but he is very intelligent and capable, your assessment is pretty much baseless because Euron takes great deal of care with all his actions and I think even his more irrational actions are carefully thought out psychological warfare. Real psychopath is literally unable to do such a thing and that is what makes a psychopath not some cruel murderous instinct

I think you stranded very far from the very definition of psychopath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

Triarchic model[edit]

The triarchic model, formulated by Christopher J. Patrick et al., suggests that different conceptions of psychopathy emphasize three observable characteristics to varying degrees. Analyses have been made with respect to the applicability of measurement tools such as the Hare Psychopathy Checklist (PCL, PCL-R) and Psychopathic Personality Inventory (PPI) to this model.

  • Boldness. Low fear including stress-tolerance, toleration of unfamiliarity and danger, and high self-confidence and social assertiveness. The PCL-R measures this relatively poorly and mainly through Facet 1 of Factor 1. Similar to PPI Fearless dominance. May correspond to differences in the amygdala and other neurological systems associated with fear.

Disinhibition. Poor impulse control including problems with planning and foresight, lacking affect and urge control, demand for immediate gratification, and poor behavioral restraints. Similar to PCL-R Factor 2 and PPI Impulsive antisociality. May correspond to impairments in frontal lobe systems that are involved in such control.

Meanness. Lacking empathy and close attachments with others, disdain of close attachments, use of cruelty to gain empowerment, exploitative tendencies, defiance of authority, and destructive excitement seeking. The PCL-R in general is related to this but in particular some elements in Factor 1. Similar to PPI Coldheartedness but also includes elements of subscales in Impulsive antisociality. Meanness may possibly be caused by either high boldness or high disinhibition combined with an adverse environment. A child with high boldness may respond poorly to punishment but may respond better to rewards and secure attachments which may not be available under adverse conditions. A child with high disinhibition may have increased problems under adverse conditions with meanness developing in response.

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Well I'm sorry that I didn't read into it close enough to make connections like this...



"I'd like to briefly note that bloodstone's most common appearance, black with flecks of red, is an exact match to the black flame flecked with red that comes from the mouth of all the black dragons we have seen so far - Drogon, Balerion the Black Dread"



The Crux of the theory, the bloodstone, is not even in the novels. Like I said, you've mixed in things that everybody knows about ex. Azor Ahai and lightbringer and connected them to something that is totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. A lot of history is just that, history. Some of it may be important, but Yi Ti is not on that list. The most interesting part about Yi Ti is that it is a reference to China, just like Valyria is a reference to the Roman empire, Westeros is a reference to Great Britain etc.



These are the places that Yi Ti is mentioned in the books according to the Wiki.




A Game of Thrones

In the Western Market of Vaes Dothrak Daenerys Targaryen sees a fat cloth trader from Yi Ti haggling with a Pentoshi over the price of some green dye, the monkey tail on his hat swaying back and forth as he shakes his head. [9]



A Clash of Kings

In Qarth Xaro Xhoan Daxos tries to entreat Daenerys to accompany him on his pleasure barge to the Jade Sea. He suggests that they journey around Yi Ti to search for the dreaming city of poets and to sip the wine of wisdom from a dead man's skull.[7]



A Feast for Crows

Garin tells Arianne Martell that according to sailors in Planky Town, grey plague, possibly referring to greyscale, has broken out in Yi Ti.[11]



A Dance with Dragons

When in the cellar of Illyrio's manse in Pentos, Tyrion Lannister notices that Illyrio has wines from the fabled east in his stock, one of which is from Yi Ti




Based on this, it seems very unlikely George left a complicated trail leading us to believe that Danerys is the Amethyst princes reborn and you were the only one that was able to figure it out.

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Yi Ti is not the Great Empire of the Dawn. The Great Empire "did not reform" after the LN, so the Yi Tish are only carrying on some bit of its legacy. The Gemstone Emperors of the GEotD appeared to Dany holding pale flaming swords and urging her to wake the dragon in book one - so they are clearly important. Asshai has been mentioned as a heart of evil since book 2. The Bloodstone Emperor is simply another name for Azor Ahai, so don't get caught up on Yi Ti and the Bloodstone Emperor. This is the story of a comet hitting a moon; which is the legend of Azor Ahai and Lightbringer. Everything else is simply informing around these ideas, which are central to the book and introduced early on.

I suggest you at least try to read part 1, as it sounds like you have not. Part 1 uses very little TWOIAF material and lays out all the concepts I am building on in part 2.

No, I am not a genius that figured out a bunch of stuff no one has. People have been sniffing around most of these ideas for a while now, many before TWOAIF came out.

TWOAIF is merely George giving us more clues to mysteries he's already laid out, and perhaps drawing our attention to things people weren't paying attention to.

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Ps I think George wrote something like over 300,000 words for TWOAIF, half of which had to be cut. So yeah, he wrote most of it and looked at all of it.

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I think you stranded very far from the very definition of psychopath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

Triarchic model[edit]

The triarchic model, formulated by Christopher J. Patrick et al., suggests that different conceptions of psychopathy emphasize three observable characteristics to varying degrees. Analyses have been made with respect to the applicability of measurement tools such as the Hare Psychopathy Checklist (PCL, PCL-R) and Psychopathic Personality Inventory (PPI) to this model.

  • Boldness. Low fear including stress-tolerance, toleration of unfamiliarity and danger, and high self-confidence and social assertiveness. The PCL-R measures this relatively poorly and mainly through Facet 1 of Factor 1. Similar to PPI Fearless dominance. May correspond to differences in the amygdala and other neurological systems associated with fear.

Disinhibition. Poor impulse control including problems with planning and foresight, lacking affect and urge control, demand for immediate gratification, and poor behavioral restraints. Similar to PCL-R Factor 2 and PPI Impulsive antisociality. May correspond to impairments in frontal lobe systems that are involved in such control.

Meanness. Lacking empathy and close attachments with others, disdain of close attachments, use of cruelty to gain empowerment, exploitative tendencies, defiance of authority, and destructive excitement seeking. The PCL-R in general is related to this but in particular some elements in Factor 1. Similar to PPI Coldheartedness but also includes elements of subscales in Impulsive antisociality. Meanness may possibly be caused by either high boldness or high disinhibition combined with an adverse environment. A child with high boldness may respond poorly to punishment but may respond better to rewards and secure attachments which may not be available under adverse conditions. A child with high disinhibition may have increased problems under adverse conditions with meanness developing in response.

No I have not, because I really know what am I talking about, psychology is not mathematics, there are number of opinions, science, especially psychology is not nearly as reliable as most people think, you have major rift about almost all things. Bunch of outside factors are present especially in criminal psychology and it's so vague that there are still people who argue its oppressive hand of the regime, like Foucault wrote. Triarchic model is relatively new and purely theoretical one, not tested or confirmed enough in clinical practice. Someone might argue that psychopathology isn't at all clear to anyone, again tied to the bunch of legal and other issues. All professional I had spoken too agree that diagnosing not just psychopath but any form of antisocial personality disorder with psychopathic traits is very difficult and requires detailed study of the patient. You can't just go and label someone psychopath because he does something you don't like, there are bunch of other reason someone can behave antisocially, one fine theory is Rational choice theory, but again no theory is yet universal and only true one. It's Hollywood nonsense that paints wrong picture of not just psychopathy or mental illness but of pretty much everything. Psychopaths act on whim, there is not even a strong urge or impulse like it's the case with some other disorders they just don't even know or want to resist, whole concept is foreign to them. Psychopaths are not all violent and not all violent people are psychopaths, you can be plenty "evil" even with great amount of empathy.

But the theory you linked does mention "problems with planning and foresight, lacking affect and urge control, demand for immediate gratification" which is very unlike Euron, his every action has intended effect, everything is thought out and he has very long term plan and works by it, he is not reckless we have never seen him do anything on whim. He may have some other psychological issues, but it's unlikely he is true psychopath.

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(1) As for the monkey tail woman, ...It may also have something to do with the COTF, who were in Essos (Ifequevron), ... I had forgotten about the "little Valyrian" lemurs - ....it was too weird to fathom. Did Valyrians come from lemurs somehow?...the opposite? What if the lemurs are the result of a BStone E experiment ?

(2) As for Nissa Nissa and a potential COTF connection... Nissa means helpful elf, but I don't see how the Amethyst E was a COTF. I am pretty solid that Nissa Nissa = Amethyst E. ...The story we get of AA forging Lightbringer is partly wrong and partly right. It's right in that someone stabbed his wife with a magic sword, but wrong about her being a willing sacrifice, and wrong about this event being the cure for the LN.

Suggestion: the Sphinx phenomenon and the Nissa "technique" may simply be magical tools you can use for various results, depending on who's doing the magic. Which means Sphinx or Nissa events don't have to be used for the same evil purpose every time. The hero's Nissa and the Bloodstone Emperor's Nissa don't have to both be negative experiences with the outcome being bad. The hero could have sacrificed his Nissa for noble purposes (used the power for a good outcome like a hero true), while the Bloodstone Emperor could have used the same power-getting method for evil gain when he slayed the Empress and brought the kind of darkness the hero banished. Like how the same control panel on the bedroom wall allows one to switch between heating the house and air-conditioning the house.

Similarly, all these funky hybrid creatures like the monkey woman may be tied into the same Sphinx process, a single magic tool or method that's been discovered all over the world down through the ages with different outcomes/agendas, sometimes existing as a fluke occurance and other times being followed up with research that allowed some cultures to perfect the "Sphinx Sciences" more fully. Danny's baby and other Targs' babies were rumored to have deformities like tails, wings, scales, etc., and remember that no beastiality or shapechanger action was required for them. The babes (supposedly) got those hybrid traits from their parents being bound to "Blood & Fire" magic (or intoxicated with it) which influenced their normal human pregnancies. So the Valyrian Lemurs could be an early attempt to master the Sphinx method by starting off with more harmless creatures---mice and monkeys before messing with dragons (which leave no room for error).

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So the Valyrian Lemurs could be an early attempt to master the Sphinx method by starting off with more harmless creatures---mice and monkeys before messing with dragons (which leave no room for error). I believe the likely main benefit of a Sphinx is that

I think lemurs were lab-rats to test the genetic magic before applying it to humans.

Valyrians have that strong counter-nature vibe, GEOTD had nice black stone, we will make ours with bloodmagic, GEOTD had nice hair and eyes, we will shape ourselves like that with bloodmagic.

Also dragonsteel, I think it's meteor steel like the Dawn and Valyrian steel is just them emulating it, of course with bloodmagic.

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What The Big Deal About Sphinxes Is:



There's some reason why they're held up repeatedly as the important thing to remember about history. It's like they're the ones who get the job done for everybody during an apocalypse when we really need somebody to.... get it done. Aside from their other powers, I think the main thing that distinguishes them is: you can tell just by looking at them that they couldn't exist without magic. A human with demon wings is super-obviously dependent on magic for its origin/existence. So when you need a magical savior..... who ya gonna call? The Sphinx. Who probably is a more fluent spellcaster than most everyone else due to how magic is undeniably inherent in their form. In a way, it's like they breathe the stuff. So they're the safest choice for whom to entrust with humanity's magical artifacts, or top secret spells, or they're the one who gets sent on an all-or-nothing mission into The Shadow or Heart of Winter, or whatever. Because magic may fail mere mortals at the moment of truth, but a Sphinx-like being will have a steadier hand and more magical reserves to call upon, they'll have the best chance of being able to hack it. Their very forms bridge the normal divide between our world and the magical realm. Their tail is their diploma. And several times in history they've been the difference, literally the bridge between two eras because their heroics carried the rest of us on their back (along with our hopes and dreams for a better future) out of dark times into the light (or the reverse).



(Also, the sphinx's animal body part thing could just be a metaphor for "achieving maximum blood magic bonding benefits." The Targs referred to as True Dragons basically have "a richer mixture" of dragon blood in their veins. They may be the actual historical figures the Sphinx myths are referring to here---the ones whose "gifts" are maxed out and who have the most innate influence over dragons... these individuals would become humanity's most reliable weapon (or savior) during an apocalypse, whether they're fighting to stop armageddon... or start it. )





I think lemurs were lab-rats to test the genetic magic before applying it to humans.





Wasn't it me that just thought that? Wait, am I you? This could be a real breakthrough that's not limited to just us Game of Thrones fans. Are we all the same person? If true, this will break the internet! (Also, if the lemurs indeed had the classic Valyrian traits transferred to them... that would mean human blood-bonding experiments led to The Rise of the Lemurs. [eventual movie title] Unless something in that region's diet gives the same silver hair & purple eyes to every zoo animal as well as every Valyrian who eats the same..... drake tacos?


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Wasn't it me that just thought that? Wait, am I you? This could be a real breakthrough that's not limited to just us Game of Thrones fans. Are we all the same person? If true, this will break the internet!

Unless you had another thought between post I last quoted and this one which was like what I said I will have to disagree.

You referred to sphinxing up humans and various wild life and I referred to magic genetic cosmetic surgery, Valyrian mages wanted to look like GEOTD emperors so they tried magic on lemurs first, to see if they can change their appearance, when they succeeded they then changed their own appereance.

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You have a great idea, it fits perfectly and than you backtrack that it does not fit. It fits buddy. It fits perfectly.

The Lightbruinger is the Sphinx. The Sphinx is a hybrid, an amalgamation. If you do believe that COTF/human hybrid was the answer (or one of the answers) to ending the Long Night, at least in Westeros, how is this Monkey tail woman any different? In fact it would be one of the only myths remembered correctly. What are COTF? Where do monkeys live? Are there COTF in Essos? And so on. But oh man, it fits perfectly. And I'm sorry all this doesn't have much to do with astrology or astronomy, yours is a fascinating essay on that, but you need to get loose with it. Think like a writer, not like a scientist or an astronomer. BTW, when is the next part coming?

To me it fits because a comet has a tail. I think tail woman could be another legend people invented after seeing the comet.

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Mother of the Others, very interesting comments on the Sphinx nature. I think you're on to something there. I'm just starting to ponder the ASOIAF sphinx stuff, so I don't really have anything smart to say back, I just wanted to say thanks for the excellent input.

I tend to agree that magic can come out many ways based on intent, that's an idea I belive in regards to the real world, and it seems some things in ASOIAF follow that rule. My general take on Azor Ahai / BStone Emperor is that he was emulating the stuff the GEOTD did, but in a corrupted form. They had dragons and flaming swords, and so did he.... But they weren't the same, at all.

As for the Nissa Nissa thing, that's what I was trying to express - even if Azor Ahai did murder Nissa, the story itself does have the right thematic solution for the LN - procreation and sacrifice, i.e. the forces of life.

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To me it fits because a comet has a tail. I think tail woman could be another legend people invented after seeing the comet.

This occurred to me as well.

I do think it foreshadows Dany with Tyrion as an advisor (tail), but I'm sure it also has an original meaning.

It should be pointed out that people from Yi Ti still wear monkey tail hats to this very day, so it's not that obscure of a story.

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No I have not, because I really know what am I talking about, psychology is not mathematics, there are number of opinions, science, especially psychology is not nearly as reliable as most people think, you have major rift about almost all things. Bunch of outside factors are present especially in criminal psychology and it's so vague that there are still people who argue its oppressive hand of the regime, like Foucault wrote. Triarchic model is relatively new and purely theoretical one, not tested or confirmed enough in clinical practice. Someone might argue that psychopathology isn't at all clear to anyone, again tied to the bunch of legal and other issues. All professional I had spoken too agree that diagnosing not just psychopath but any form of antisocial personality disorder with psychopathic traits is very difficult and requires detailed study of the patient. You can't just go and label someone psychopath because he does something you don't like, there are bunch of other reason someone can behave antisocially, one fine theory is Rational choice theory, but again no theory is yet universal and only true one. It's Hollywood nonsense that paints wrong picture of not just psychopathy or mental illness but of pretty much everything. Psychopaths act on whim, there is not even a strong urge or impulse like it's the case with some other disorders they just don't even know or want to resist, whole concept is foreign to them. Psychopaths are not all violent and not all violent people are psychopaths, you can be plenty "evil" even with great amount of empathy.

But the theory you linked does mention "problems with planning and foresight, lacking affect and urge control, demand for immediate gratification" which is very unlike Euron, his every action has intended effect, everything is thought out and he has very long term plan and works by it, he is not reckless we have never seen him do anything on whim. He may have some other psychological issues, but it's unlikely he is true psychopath.

You clearly haven't read the whole link. The bit I posted was just one example. If you think Euron is not a psychopath, then we can only agree to totally disagree. You raised the bar of being sane very high indeed.

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I think lemurs were lab-rats to test the genetic magic before applying it to humans.

Valyrians have that strong counter-nature vibe, GEOTD had nice black stone, we will make ours with bloodmagic, GEOTD had nice hair and eyes, we will shape ourselves like that with bloodmagic.

Also dragonsteel, I think it's meteor steel like the Dawn and Valyrian steel is just them emulating it, of course with bloodmagic.

I've had an idea about lemurs since last April. I noticed the silver hair, purple eyes thing while looking at Dany's third AGoT chapter, and then the possible significance of that part was confirmed with the "little Valyrians" line from TWoIaF. A few things to keep in mind with this idea are that: the literal and figurative association of Targaryens (Valyrians) and dragons; the likely involvement of blood magic/shadowbinding in the hatching of Dany's dragons, and; the Qarthine celestial origin story of dragons.

Lemurs comes from the Latin lemures, which means spirits of the dead.

The Dothraki believed the stars were horses made of fire, a great herd that galloped across the sky by night. - AGoT, Daenerys V. To me, horses made of fire reads like dragons. Especially since these fiery mounts are in the sky; flying.

But in Clash, we read a different version of what the Dothraki supposedly believe the stars are. “The Dothraki believe the stars are spirits of the valiant dead,” Theon said. - ACoK, Theon VI. Wait, are they horses made of fire, or are they the spirits of the valiant dead? Those seem like different things, but that doesn't necessarily mean there must be a contradiction. They can be both if the spirits of the valiant dead inhabit dragons via shadowbinding.

Targaryens like to say that they are the blood of the dragon. Some people write that off as nonsense, while others believe that they might actually have dragon's blood. What if it's the other way around. What if dragons have, not Targaryen/Valyrian blood per se, but are inhabited by the shades of dead Targaryens/Valyrians, and that is how the dragons were bound to certain families within the free the freehold.

Aerys II and Aerion Brightflame both believed that they could turn themselves into dragons with wildfire. Of course we completely dismissed this as crazy Targ-ness at its finest because both of those characters were in fact crazy Targs. But, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if GRRM was hiding an element of truth in the actions of Aerys and Aerion. Two characters with little to no credibility.

So, why do we get a couple of references to lemurs, including the very obvious "little Valyrians" in the World book? Because Targaryens/Valyrians are figurative dragons, and dragons contain the spirits of the dead. In many cases, it might well be the spirits of dead dragon lords.

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What The Big Deal About Sphinxes Is:

There's some reason why they're held up repeatedly as the important thing to remember about history. It's like they're the ones who get the job done for everybody during an apocalypse when we really need somebody to.... get it done. Aside from their other powers, I think the main thing that distinguishes them is: you can tell just by looking at them that they couldn't exist without magic. A human with demon wings is super-obviously dependent on magic for its origin/existence. So when you need a magical savior..... who ya gonna call? The Sphinx. Who probably is a more fluent spellcaster than most everyone else due to how magic is undeniably inherent in their form. In a way, it's like they breathe the stuff. So they're the safest choice for whom to entrust with humanity's magical artifacts, or top secret spells, or they're the one who gets sent on an all-or-nothing mission into The Shadow or Heart of Winter, or whatever. Because magic may fail mere mortals at the moment of truth, but a Sphinx-like being will have a steadier hand and more magical reserves to call upon, they'll have the best chance of being able to hack it. Their very forms bridge the normal divide between our world and the magical realm. Their tail is their diploma. And several times in history they've been the difference, literally the bridge between two eras because their heroics carried the rest of us on their back (along with our hopes and dreams for a better future) out of dark times into the light (or the reverse).

(Also, the sphinx's animal body part thing could just be a metaphor for "achieving maximum blood magic bonding benefits." The Targs referred to as True Dragons basically have "a richer mixture" of dragon blood in their veins. They may be the actual historical figures the Sphinx myths are referring to here---the ones whose "gifts" are maxed out and who have the most innate influence over dragons... these individuals would become humanity's most reliable weapon (or savior) during an apocalypse, whether they're fighting to stop armageddon... or start it. )

Wasn't it me that just thought that? Wait, am I you? This could be a real breakthrough that's not limited to just us Game of Thrones fans. Are we all the same person? If true, this will break the internet! (Also, if the lemurs indeed had the classic Valyrian traits transferred to them... that would mean human blood-bonding experiments led to The Rise of the Lemurs. [eventual movie title] Unless something in that region's diet gives the same silver hair & purple eyes to every zoo animal as well as every Valyrian who eats the same..... drake tacos?

So, in short, Jon Snow is the Sphinx in our story.

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