Jump to content

Deep ones , important or not?


LordImp

Recommended Posts

We have read about the deep ones i TWOIAF , squishers was mentioned in the books , we have House Borell who has webbed fingers etc. We know that there was/ is an mysterious sea race. But will it have anything to say on the story , will they appear or are they just world bulding.

Any toughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly think it's just world building.



Introducing a new race of mysterious sea-creatures so late in the main series would complicate the plot even more than it already is (which is a lot, by any standard). I do not think they will have any importance to the story of ASoIaF.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Deep Ones broke the Arm of Dorne and caused The Doom of Valyria




Background



Black Stones: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Black_stone


So we know there are mysterious oily black stones scattered across The Known World. Seastone Chair on the Iron Islands, 40 ft statue of a Toad on Isle of Toads, Buildings in Asshai. All located near the Sea.


These black stones are similar but different from the black stone on the foundation of Hightower at Oldtown and the Five Forts in Yi Ti and the remaining Valyrian dragonfire structures. These stone are the same in every way except they are not described as oily but rather as fused black stone.



Bloodstone Emperor: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bloodstone_Emperor


The last emperor of the old Yi Ti emperor. This guy killed his sister. Married a "tiger women" and was so bad his actions are blamed for the coming of the Long Night. But importantly upon his ascension to the Yi Ti thrown he cast down the true gods of Yi Ti, to worship a black stone that fell from the sky. He founded the Church of Starry Wisdom which is still practiced today in some port cities



Deep Ones: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Deep_Ones


The black stones are associated with what's known as the Deep Ones (a fabled mythical race of half men half sea creature). I am assuming that The Drowned God of the Iron Islands, the Old Ones of Ling, the Rhoynish Gods known as Mother Rhoyne and Old Men of the River, and the Gods of The Thousand Islands are all the references to the same entity or entities under the sea.



Patchface: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Patchface


Patchface supposedly met the deep ones and now sings cryptic tales of something in the sea that will eventually rise out of the water. He is currently a jester at Dragonstone



Mazemakers of Lorath: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Mazemakers


The legends of the Lorathi state the mazemakers were destroyed by creatures of the sea, such as merlings, selkies, or walrus-men. Lorath is a city next to the sea.



So I am of the belief that there is a race of underwater dwellers have are as old or older than The Children and Giants. I also believe that the Deep Ones are responsible for submerging the land bridge between Westeros and Essos. The Children had a hand in it but the Deep Ones did the heavy lifting.



Additionally, the Deep Ones are responsible for the Doom of Valyria. Valyria was a coastal city and considering that nearly all the dragonlords and dragons were in Valyria during the doom the timing can’t be a coincidence. The Doom occurred partly as revenge for the Valyrians wiping out the 250,000 strong army of Rhoynar. The surviving Rhoynars who didn’t leave on the 10,000 ships abandoned their old religion worshipping the gods of the river after defeat for the Faith of the Seven. Also, assuming the Deep Ones have long planned on returning to the surface to rule once again it would make sense to destroy the greatest threat to their rule. (The Valyrians have so many dragons at the time they could make huge bodies of water boil)



The Deep Ones are the lost race that ruled the world before the rise of mankind. The Deep Ones have teamed up with The Children who are tired of living on the fringes and want to reclaim their old turf in Westeros. The Deep Ones will probably have some of mankind on their side. The Ironborn for example I assume will side with The Deep Ones. Bloodraven maybe also aware of the Deep Ones and is helping them. Members of the Church of Starry Wisdom are all for the take over. Some forces in Assahai probably will have a hand in the Deep Ones reemergence.



So how will a majority of mankind fight such a powerful foe?


We will not see the White Walkers and the Dragons battle it out. Instead they will both have to join forces to defeat the Deep Ones once and for all. I believe that the events for the Long Night have been misinterpreted over the centuries and the White Walkers got cast as the bad guys but in reality they fight alongside mankind. The current White Walkers are gearing up for the fight. They know what is coming.



Perhaps the known world like Earth was once completed covered in water and only after land masses began to rise out of the water did The Great Ones lose their grip on control of the world.




What do you think?


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the Deep Ones will have a hand in the story at all, and I don't think they're related to the Rhoynar at all. The Rhoynish Mother Rhoyne was simply a personification of the Rhoyne River and their other Gods were likely based on massive river creatures; the Crab King representing crabs (obviously) and the Old Man of the River being based on the massive turtle that are named after the God. The Rhoynish religion had no connection to the sea at all, and as far as I know there's no oily black stone anywhere along the Rhoyne. And the ones who adopted the Faith were the ones who fled on the Thousand Ships, and it makes some measure of sense considering how closely related to the Rhoyne their religion was and how they no longer live along her banks.



And you're actually completely wrong when you say Valyria was a coastal city. It was located within the peninsula of Valyria itself, and even today it's located in the middle of the largest island of the shattered peninsula.



EDIT: And just so this is clear: that was directed at DragonSnow's comment, and not the OP. I just didn't want to take up so much space quoting his post.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tyrion once said that the fishermen of Lannisport regularly report seeing Mermaids in response to someone talking about Dragons, which were real. I think GRRM left his options open, but would tend to agree that it would overly complicate the plot at this point.

He was actually talking about the Others, not dragons. Tyrion loves dragons and its clear that they existed once [emoji1]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Deep Ones are essentially a nod to HP Lovecraft and his mythos. You only have to look at his works to see where the inspiration came from. Even those things mentioned here:



Black Stones - read any of his stories with cycolpean architecture in them, At the Mountain of Madness would be a good one. Also similar to this would be The Black Stone by Robert E. Howard. Essentially the black stones here are all that remains of a long dead civilization. We don't know anything about them and don't really need to, it is just adding to the world we are reading about.



Bloodstone Emperor - he started a cult worshiping a fallen star. And the name of the cult "Church of Starry Wisdom" is right out of a Lovecraft story. Who knows if his worshipers really gained knowledge from what they worshiped? But it adds a weird undertone to the far east, and at the end of the day it's no more bizarre than worshiping gods with faces in trees is it?



Deep Ones - i'm sure most people have some idea of Lovecraft's version of these guys. The fish people who are followers of Dagon, the Elder god and live beneath the sea but come on land to create hybrids with the people in villages near the coast.



Patchface - well it's a long running theme for anything mythos related that at some point the protagonist goes mad from what they've seen. Chances are Patchface has seen some weird stuff, enough to turn his mind into jelly. Everone thinks he's mad, which he is, but there's possibly some truth to his ravings!



Lorath - just go read "The Doom that came to Sarnath" and you'll see a few similarities. A coastal city destroyed by a rival group of aquatic beings.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Deep Ones are essentially a nod to HP Lovecraft and his mythos. You only have to look at his works to see where the inspiration came from. Even those things mentioned here:

Black Stones - read any of his stories with cycolpean architecture in them, At the Mountain of Madness would be a good one. Also similar to this would be The Black Stone by Robert E. Howard. Essentially the black stones here are all that remains of a long dead civilization. We don't know anything about them and don't really need to, it is just adding to the world we are reading about.

Bloodstone Emperor - he started a cult worshiping a fallen star. And the name of the cult "Church of Starry Wisdom" is right out of a Lovecraft story. Who knows if his worshipers really gained knowledge from what they worshiped? But it adds a weird undertone to the far east, and at the end of the day it's no more bizarre than worshiping gods with faces in trees is it?

Deep Ones - i'm sure most people have some idea of Lovecraft's version of these guys. The fish people who are followers of Dagon, the Elder god and live beneath the sea but come on land to create hybrids with the people in villages near the coast.

Patchface - well it's a long running theme for anything mythos related that at some point the protagonist goes mad from what they've seen. Chances are Patchface has seen some weird stuff, enough to turn his mind into jelly. Everone thinks he's mad, which he is, but there's possibly some truth to his ravings!

Lorath - just go read "The Doom that came to Sarnath" and you'll see a few similarities. A coastal city destroyed by a rival group of aquatic beings.

Will Patchface powers ever be explained? can it be something with the Drowned god?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Deep Ones are essentially a nod to HP Lovecraft and his mythos. You only have to look at his works to see where the inspiration came from. Even those things mentioned here:

Black Stones - read any of his stories with cycolpean architecture in them, At the Mountain of Madness would be a good one. Also similar to this would be The Black Stone by Robert E. Howard. Essentially the black stones here are all that remains of a long dead civilization. We don't know anything about them and don't really need to, it is just adding to the world we are reading about.

Bloodstone Emperor - he started a cult worshiping a fallen star. And the name of the cult "Church of Starry Wisdom" is right out of a Lovecraft story. Who knows if his worshipers really gained knowledge from what they worshiped? But it adds a weird undertone to the far east, and at the end of the day it's no more bizarre than worshiping gods with faces in trees is it?

Deep Ones - i'm sure most people have some idea of Lovecraft's version of these guys. The fish people who are followers of Dagon, the Elder god and live beneath the sea but come on land to create hybrids with the people in villages near the coast.

Patchface - well it's a long running theme for anything mythos related that at some point the protagonist goes mad from what they've seen. Chances are Patchface has seen some weird stuff, enough to turn his mind into jelly. Everone thinks he's mad, which he is, but there's possibly some truth to his ravings!

Lorath - just go read "The Doom that came to Sarnath" and you'll see a few similarities. A coastal city destroyed by a rival group of aquatic beings.

I always thought that Sarnath was represented by... well Sarnath.

But whoah I never thought about Patchface in that way before. Could it be that... something taught him prophecy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never knew there actually was a place called Sarnath in the ASOIAF world, must have missed that one.



But I think the exact name is not too important, it's the story that is. A city destroyed by a group of aquatic beings, after the city stole their idol. Who knows where the Mazemakers got the their "knowledge" from? Did the steal it from another civilization, mer-people, who they then tried to destroy?


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never knew there actually was a place called Sarnath in the ASOIAF world, must have missed that one.

But I think the exact name is not too important, it's the story that is. A city destroyed by a group of aquatic beings, after the city stole their idol. Who knows where the Mazemakers got the their "knowledge" from? Did the steal it from another civilization, mer-people, who they then tried to destroy?

It was the capital of Sarnor.

And what "knowledge" are we talking about here? I don't recall seeing any evidence that the Mazemakers had any sort of special knowledge; it's not like their mazes are the fused stone or oily stone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I don't think the Deep Ones will have a hand in the story at all, and I don't think they're related to the Rhoynar at all. The Rhoynish Mother Rhoyne was simply a personification of the Rhoyne River and their other Gods were likely based on massive river creatures; the Crab King representing crabs (obviously) and the Old Man of the River being based on the massive turtle that are named after the God. The Rhoynish religion had no connection to the sea at all, and as far as I know there's no oily black stone anywhere along the Rhoyne. And the ones who adopted the Faith were the ones who fled on the Thousand Ships, and it makes some measure of sense considering how closely related to the Rhoyne their religion was and how they no longer live along her banks.

And you're actually completely wrong when you say Valyria was a coastal city. It was located within the peninsula of Valyria itself, and even today it's located in the middle of the largest island of the shattered peninsula.

EDIT: And just so this is clear: that was directed at DragonSnow's comment, and not the OP. I just didn't want to take up so much space quoting his post.

Splitting hairs on if Valyria was a peninsula or a coastal city. IT WAS CLOSE THE SEA and is even closer now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...