94 replies to this topic

[cravenravenkeeper]

DBaron, on Oct 6 2006, 01.04, said:

Sigh...I have always been a Stark fan, but it just gets worse and worse for them as the series progesses.    At this point I have decided that Martin can't write a book in this series without somehow finding a way to further humilate or ruin the Starks.   That line you mentioned and Jojens are one of the few things that still give some hope.

Also, Wylla was at the TOJ?

Remember we're only at the halfway point in the series. The Starks are prevailing quite well inspite of all their losses. I think in fact (as another poster pointed out) the Starks are in a far better position then the Lannisters (or anyone else we know of). They are young, the eldest are moving very close to positiosn of high power (Sansa is being married to "Harry the heir" and Jon is Lord Commander of TNW right next to one of the kings.) The other kids are off learning skills (Killing in Arya's case, Warging in Brans). Rickon...I don't know whats going to happen with him. Unless I misjudged Osha another posters prediction that he'll go completely feral probably isn't far off.

The other two "big" contenders are Dany and the Lannisters. The Lannisters are older, one of them is in prisoned and considered mad. The other is considered a disgrace and has lost his most valubele tool (his sword hand). Tyrion is in good shape, but I don't think he's giong to Dany to push Cersi's agenda. Dany is young, has dragons, but otherwise is lost. She is not in a position where she has a family network to fall back on/be reunited with,her advisors some to be of dubious honor (exception: Bellamy, but how good at politics he is who knows). She is 15-16 and up to her neck in politics she is learning on the fly. Than add in all the people flying to see her and god only knows.

But hey maybe she has a nephew somewhere....

Quote

i wanted to throw book away when Ned was killed. Such a shame the way he is been executed and worse you dont feel like he has been avenged or ever will be avenged

Well strictly speaking he was. His daughter murdered the man who ordered her killed.

I would have been much more satsified if after defeating tyrwin (with Edmure not messing it up) Rob besieged kings landing and challeneged Joffery to sinlge combat (and lets face it we know how that would have turned out.) I'm quite sure I would have been unabel to contain my joy at that idea.

Note: I'd rather Rob execute him after the war. It'd be much more humiliating for Rob to defeat him and make him beg for his life, only to kill him after for his crimes.

Oh and don't forget Eddard has 5 kids left (Jon is Ed's in Spirit even if turns out not in blood. ) . Success is the best revenge-his kids succeed where Tyrwin's, Robert's and Cersi's all fail.

[Blackthrone]

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Well strictly speaking he was. His daughter murdered the man who ordered her killed.

Sansa didn't kill Joffrey.

[cravenravenkeeper]

Blackthrone, on Sep 23 2009, 22.04, said:

Sansa didn't kill Joffrey.

Not directly, but I think she had her revenge even if she didn't drop the poision in herself.

[RemitMan]

From Eddard I

As Robert is discussing all of the pleasures of the South, he talks specifically about Storm’s End and Highgarden. How much time has Robert spent in these other places instead of at King’s Landing? Does Robert’s frequent absences lead Jon Arryn to suspect that the children are not Roberts in addition to the physical differences between the royal children and Robert’s bastards?

More at http://asoiaf.ovrnit...rones-eddard-i/

[The Fading Griffin]

roeh61, on 08 October 2006 - 10:17 AM, said:

1.  I thought the iron and stone where references to the first men, whom the Starks are decended from.

2.  Why does the king have to unpack the truck?  he has servants to do that!

3.  Is this another lie by Ned?

in a sense, point #1 makes sense. iron and stone may well represent the starks, and the ice and fire may very well represent R+L=J, you know, raff the sweetling + Lothorien elves = Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.


just kidding about the last part.

[JD44Irish]

Re Eddard VII

I've always thought that when Ned changed Robert's last will and testament that was very un-Ned like.  Ned isn't the kind of man to resort to dirty tactics, lying or deceit to get what he wants.  Yet here he is willing to substantively alter his King and best friend's last Will and testament.  

To me this is where Ned sealed his fate, he needed to go all in one way or the other.  Either tell Robert and just pray he can hang on for a few hours or just pack it in and hightail it back to Winterfell.  Ned tried to have it both ways and it blew up in his face.

At least that is my take on this incident.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Wisest Bass, on 10 December 2008 - 12:25 AM, said:

You know, this chapter makes me think. Was Varys making an effort to do what he later does with Tyrion, and smuggle him out of King's Landing to serve his purposes (and Daenerys Targaryen's) elsewhere? Certainly Ned would bring his own advantages; I think some of the background implies that he was a decent leader of troops, if not a great political manipulator.

He tries to be very helpful to Ned throughout the book, by slipping him hints and the like about what is going on. He then manages to convince him to not get himself and Sansa killed by confessing, and when Joffrey gets impulsive and demands his head, he runs over trying to stop the thing. That's a lot of effort for a man who is going to just end up on the Wall.

I think that Varys would never let Ned reach the Wall, but he wouldn't send him to Dany or Aegon, but rather to his (Robb's) troops; if he wanted Starks and Lannisters to bleed each other as much as possible, it would be much easier if Ned was in command, in theory at least. He was already a proven commander, while Robb had never fought a battle.

It also would have been easier to make him bend the knee for Aegon rather than Tywin, of course.

[Wembeley]

Ealasaid, on 03 October 2006 - 01:01 PM, said:

Good point.  I think Cersei wants him drunk, so he'll pass out and leave her alone.

Yeah, he lets her manipulate him a lot.  Like before the tourney she forbids him to fight in the melee when she knows he will insist on fighting just to go against her wishes when she actually wants him to fight.  That was probably  when she decided that Ned was going to probably rein him in quickly and she better hurry up and get her plans into action.

[Wembeley]

Starkess, on 07 February 2007 - 04:39 PM, said:

Reading Ned's chapters is so frustrating! I've read the series once before, and I'm doing a reread now. The first time I read it, I had no idea what I was getting into. I thought Ned was gonna pull through. Now as I reread it, I see each decision that Ned makes that is going to bring him to his doom, and it makes me want to throw the book against the wall and shout nasty things about some people (such as LF). Which is to say that they are very well written chapters!

It is my hope that Ned's story arc (and Robb's, but since he wasn't a POV, not as much) is the worst for the Starks. Not that I think it'll end happily ever after for them, but their lots will end up being a little better than his and Robb's. Because we started out with Ned's demise, followed by Robb's, even if things don't end up really well for the rest of the Starks, we as readers will kind of see it as good by comparison. I don't know if I'm making any sense here, so nevermind.

Yep.  I am also hoping that Littlefinger gets his justice eventually dealt out by Catelyn.  Remember Edmure her brother gave him the nickname Littlefinger and when she first sees him at Kings Landing her first instinct is unhappy and saying "why have I been brought here in this fashion" and thinking she knew he was clever as a boy but would he be wise as a man? She should have stayed suspicious of him instead of jumping on his lie of saying the dagger was his and won by Tyrion betting against Jaime.  She should have not just believed it because she wanted it to be the Lannisters.

[JonTargaryenSnow]

I'm not exactly sure where to post this so I'll go ahead and do it here. I'm almost done with Clash Of Kings and will, of course, move on to SOS immediately. Is there a way to avoid being totally spoiled while participating in the forum here or am I entering at my own risk? I'm not completely freaked about spoilage, I never could "stay clean" while on my LOST forums and I came out just fine. And the fact that this amazing story isn't finished yet means I'd only be spoiled to a certain extent. But still, I'd like to keep from learning everything all at once. Thanks for your patience, as I said, I wasn't sure where to post this. Oh, and I'm thrilled to be here!

[JonTargaryenSnow]

JD44Irish, on 18 August 2011 - 12:56 PM, said:

Re Eddard VII

I've always thought that when Ned changed Robert's last will and testament that was very un-Ned like.  Ned isn't the kind of man to resort to dirty tactics, lying or deceit to get what he wants.  Yet here he is willing to substantively alter his King and best friend's last Will and testament.  

To me this is where Ned sealed his fate, he needed to go all in one way or the other.  Either tell Robert and just pray he can hang on for a few hours or just pack it in and hightail it back to Winterfell.  Ned tried to have it both ways and it blew up in his face.

At least that is my take on this incident.

I totally agree with you. I watched the show before even knowing this was a book series (ashamed, I'll admit it) and when I was watching the show I paused my DVR and asked the rest of the room if they thought Ned changing the will was a mistake. Some agreed, some didn't but then again, no one in the room knew what was coming. Every one of Ned's decisions was a step closer to his fate and it was maddening to witness it. It's even worse to read the book, watch the show then read the book again! It gets no easier. It makes me think about how I've handled certain things in life; whether or not integrity and honor are the way to go. I guess it comes down to choosing battles wisely and not being rigid in your dealings, be it one way or the other. But wait, that sounds like Varys' way of thinking. Then again, the spider still crawls.

[YuvalTheVal]

Just wanted to say that Eddard's chapters in this book are still the best chapters in the entire series. So complicated and intriguing- masterful storytelling by martin.

[Fitzochris]

The real skill Martin demonstrates, for me at least, is that every time I re-read Eddard, I still think, on some subliminal level, that he's going to do something different and save himself.

Of course, he never does...

Edited by Fitzochris, 08 December 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Suzymofo]

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Edited by Suzymofo, 09 December 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[Suzymofo]

Suzymofo, on 09 December 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Also, do married women take on their husband's name in Westeros? She is always referred to as Cersei Lannister instead of Cersei Baratheon. I recall Catelyn being called Catelyn Stark throughout the series.

Catelyn became a Stark over time, grew to love Ned and the ways of his house, but Cersei is still a Lannister through and through. She has no love for her husband or his family. I think that normally, the woman ends up taking her husband's name, but Cersei is a different case. She is all Lannister.

Edited by Suzymofo, 09 December 2012 - 10:31 PM.