Vaella & Maegor Targareyn

[Padraig O'Sullivan]

Vaella was the daughter of Daeron the Drunken and Maegor was the son of Aerion Brightflame.

What do you think became of them when their uncle Aegon became king?

I think Maegor might have been sent to the Wall along with his uncles Aemon and Bloodraven. Out of sight where he couldn't be used later on to get to the Iron Throne. Well that's my opinion

[The Wondering Wolf]

I don't think that Aegon would send a boy at the age of one or two to the Wall. Maybe he gave Maegor to the Faith. Septon Maegor - wouldn't that be ironic?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

That'd require sending a 1 year old to the Wall. Not going to happen.

Faith is not a bad option.

Vaella was "simple" (mentally disabled), so she might have died. Possibly Maegor to.

There is always Summerhall to bring Targs down a notch.

[shockwave]

Vaella probably died

it seems like Maegor just disappeared. The maester probably didn't mention him because his line would be a major threat against Robert.

perhaps he moved to Essos? He isn't mentionned to have died at summerhall. He certainly didn't seem around or otherwise one of his descendants might have married Rhaegar

[Lord Varys]

Vaella was already eleven at the Great Council, so I doubt that she died as a child. I imagine she lived a long and more or less happy life only to die at Summerhall with some other members of her family. Maegor may have been there, too.

We simply do not know. It is very likely that there is a story to Prince Maegor as he was never mentioned again during Egg's reign and as a male from the elder line he would have been more important than a woman. On the other hand, we also do not know when Archmaester Vaegon died or whether he lived to see the Dance of the Dragons. If Maegor joined the Faith/Citadel and became High Septon or Archmaester there was no reason to mention that separately in the book.

It is claimed that Aegon V called many of those closest to him to Summerhall for the ritual/Rhaegar's birth, and some of Gyldayn's quotes can be understand that many/all branches of the blood of the dragon should have been there. It is also a possibility that Maegor did not turn made and became a trusted friend of Egg's throughout his reign. Then he certainly would have been there.

I expect Egg's surviving sisters and some of their descendants (possibly Selwyn Tarth), Daenora (if still alive), Maegor (if still alive/in Westeros), Vaella, Rhaelle (if still alive), and Steffon to be at Summerhall.

But Maegor could also become important if he and Daenora actually left Westeros shortly after the Great Council. Then they may somehow connected to Varys and Illyrio - with Varys/Illyrio being Maegor's son, or the Tattered Prince being Maegor himself (as some people have suggested).

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Daenora/Maegor marriage isn't off the cards either. Wraps up two loose ends.

Don't know what the consequences are, but it stops there being two seperate lines of possible inheritance.

Then to Essos we go. Essos is where unwanted Targs go if it's not the Faith or Citadel or NW.

[Lord Varys]

Daenora cannot possibly have married her own son. But considering that she must have been pretty young when she gave birth to Maegor she may have remarried afterwards - if she survived the birth of Maegor which we do not know.

I guess you mean a Maegor/Vaella marriage instead?

Could be, although Vaella was ten years older than Maegor, and an infant/young child could easily have been given to both the Faith or the Citadel. He wouldn't have a choice in that especially since Aegon V as king and new head of House Targaryen would have been his legal guardian. And unless Daenora was still alive and run away with her son we should assume that Aegon V kept his nephew under very close guard/at his court as he would have been aware that he might be used against him especially if he turned out to be a charismatic warrior and not insane like his father.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It is also possible that Vaella married into House Tarth.. being the mother of Selwyn...

[Lord Varys]

That is not all that likely, I think. Vaella may have married or not - depending how simple she actually was - but I doubt the Tarths would have taken her and not, say, Daella or Rhae (or one of their children).

But honestly I expect that the simple Targaryens remained simply unmarried. Just as Princess Gael apparently was still unmarried when she killed herself - and she could actually have been in her later thirties by then.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I don't know. By the time Daella (b. 199) and Rhae (b. 201 or after) reached the age of marriage, Maekar was Prince of Dragonstone (217 AC).. Daella would have been 18, Rhae 16 or younger. Tarth seems an unlikely marriage candidate for a royal house.. so why not have Vaella been the bride?

Even if Daella married younger than 18, Maekars status had gone up, he had gotten closer to the throne., already. Thus Daella, as a marriage candidate, would have become more important.

So it could have been..

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Daenora cannot possibly have married her own son. But considering that she must have been pretty young when she gave birth to Maegor she may have remarried afterwards - if she survived the birth of Maegor which we do not know.

I guess you mean a Maegor/Vaella marriage instead?

Could be, although Vaella was ten years older than Maegor, and an infant/young child could easily have been given to both the Faith or the Citadel. He wouldn't have a choice in that especially since Aegon V as king and new head of House Targaryen would have been his legal guardian. And unless Daenora was still alive and run away with her son we should assume that Aegon V kept his nephew under very close guard/at his court as he would have been aware that he might be used against him especially if he turned out to be a charismatic warrior and not insane like his father.

I MEANT VAELLA OMFG

Would a Dunk/Vaella marriage be more likely then a Dunk/Daella marriage? It makes sense since he is a hedge knight, but perhaps not.

[Night's King Reborn]

One theory I saw mentioned somewhere was that Vaella was married off into a loyal Crownlands house to keep her safe but out of the spotlight, and one of her descendants is Lollys Stokeworth (the shared trait being 'apparent' simplemindedness). Not sure I buy it, but interesting to consider (I feel that much of what we see of Lollys is a result of years-long domineering at the hands of her family, and maybe now she can acquire more self-confidence).

Maegor, on the other hand, is a different story altogether. No way that Aegon lets his nephew who by all the rules of inheritance has a better claim go free without supervision. One possiblity is dying young, either naturally or 'accidentally', though Aegon doesn't seem the type to even quietly countenance kinslaying. Maybe the Wall when he is older, although one would think that we'd have heard about the son of Aerion Brightflame being on the Wall by now. The other options go into the crackpot territory of Maegor=the Tattered Prince, Maegor=Varys or the father of Varys (following in Aerion's footsteps and hanging out in Lys, etc.

Either their fates are a deliberate omission to prevent spoilers for the next two books, or they simply drop off the map for whatever unexplained reason.

[walkingWITHcersei]

That is not all that likely, I think. Vaella may have married or not - depending how simple she actually was - but I doubt the Tarths would have taken her and not, say, Daella or Rhae (or one of their children).

But honestly I expect that the simple Targaryens remained simply unmarried. Just as Princess Gael apparently was still unmarried when she killed herself - and she could actually have been in her later thirties by then.

We don't have to guess what Targs do with other potential Targ claimants we know exactly what they do they send them where they have to take vows. Aemon did it twice once when sent to become a Maester and once to the wall. Anyone else get the impression from tWoiaF that Aemon wasn't as cheery and altruistic about going north as Game led us to believe? The Watch raised baby Mance (though the story is very suspect). Targs going north or to Oldtown wasn't a rare event there were Targ shields with the NW. Believe any one of those Targs went there willingly? Well BR did i think but that's a different argument. Just saying if what we've seen is an indication odds are one way or another he ended up in one of those two places. People like that are never kept at court they're always treated as a danger needing to be neutralized immediately. With the problems in Aegon V reign no way that kid is just hanging out somewhere round KL. Wouldn't happen.

[Colonel Green]

Tarth seems an unlikely marriage candidate for a royal house..

No moreso than Plumm or Penrose.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

I don't know. By the time Daella (b. 199) and Rhae (b. 201 or after) reached the age of marriage, Maekar was Prince of Dragonstone (217 AC).. Daella would have been 18, Rhae 16 or younger. Tarth seems an unlikely marriage candidate for a royal house.. so why not have Vaella been the bride?

Even if Daella married younger than 18, Maekars status had gone up, he had gotten closer to the throne., already. Thus Daella, as a marriage candidate, would have become more important.

So it could have been..

BFR3 occurred in 219, and we heard in TMK that BR was keeping a very close eye on the situation ever since Aerys I's ascension. Tarth would be in a strategically significant position to assist or oppose an invasion launched from Tyrosh; ensuring their loyalty to the crown through a marriage would likely be considered worthwhile. Daella or Rhae seem to be very likely candidates for the Tarth link, given their ages during the critical build up to BFR3.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

But Maegor could also become important if he and Daenora actually left Westeros shortly after the Great Council. Then they may somehow connected to Varys and Illyrio - with Varys/Illyrio being Maegor's son, or the Tattered Prince being Maegor himself (as some people have suggested).

I've always thought that if Yandel could have honestly tied up loose ends, he would have. (Robert/Joffrey/Tommen certainly would have preferred to see any speculation about other possible claimants refuted if possible.) Since Yandel tells us nothing of Maegor's fate, I think something like this is the most likely case, although I suspect Daenora fled Westeros with Maegor the moment the Great Council passed Maegor over, without waiting for the Council to end.

One theory I saw mentioned somewhere was that Vaella was married off into a loyal Crownlands house to keep her safe but out of the spotlight, and one of her descendants is Lollys Stokeworth (the shared trait being 'apparent' simplemindedness). Not sure I buy it, but interesting to consider (I feel that much of what we see of Lollys is a result of years-long domineering at the hands of her family, and maybe now she can acquire more self-confidence).

I believe I floated that idea once or twice. It's pure speculation, of course, but if Vaella lived to adulthood finding someone to take her in seems desirable. No major house would want her, so she may have been "dumped" on a loyal but minor house.

[Lord Varys]

Colonel Green,

the Penroses were Targaryen kin prior to the Ronnel-Elaena and Aerys-Aelinor match. Else Aelinor would not have been Aerys' cousin. Thus the Penrose matches fit the Targaryen practice of incest/cousin marriages perfectly.

The Plumm match seems to have been somewhat uncommon but not unheard of - Viserra Targaryen was betrothed to Lord Manderly, and Daemon was married to Rhea Royce, after all. Especially since Lord Ossifer was apparently very rich and without an heir (which then enabled Aegon IV to claim all the Plumm wealth for himself after Ossifer's death).

I personally think the Dunk & Egg story 'The Sellsword' is not going to show Dunk on a special mission but depicts him and Daella in exile in Essos following their marriage. Many people have suggested that they could not marry and get away with it - and perhaps they didn't get away with it? Dunk may have been in exile throughout the entirety of Maekar's reign, only to be recalled by Aegon V upon his ascension.

If we consider the fact that Dunk does not want to join the KG but proves his worth during his time with Egg he should make a great career immediately afterwards gaining lands, titles, and a decent noble match in a Bronn-like fashion rather than ending up in the KG. Him falling in love with Daella could both complicate things and effectively end his career. And considering Dunk's meager fighting/riding skills right now - which in no way are equal to the legend he is supposed to become - I'd not be surprised one bit if he has to spend quite some years as a professional soldier providing for Daella and their child (like Cole offered Rhaenyra to do, and Jorah did for Lynesse, as least for a time).

This could open up interesting possibilities: Dunk serving with Bittersteel at the Golden Company, rising through the ranks, befriending Haegon and Daemon III. On which side is Dunk fighting during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion? It is strange that Egg but not he is mentioned during the account on that Rebellion...

Vaella:

Has anybody ever thought as to why Vaella was only born as late as 222 AC? Considering that Kiera's first husband, Prince Valarr, died in 209 AC this is really strange. Perhaps Kiera and Daeron only married each other after the Third Blackfyre Rebellion? Or they only began to live with each other when Maekar ascended the Iron Throne and insisted that Daeron continue his line?

It is easily imaginable that Vaella lived her life as an unmarried woman. Those things happen, too. Especially after the Great Council dismissed her claim at once (which should have been a blow to both Kiera/Vaella and Daenora/Maegor). Again, she could have been one of the victims at Summerhall without any issue of her own. If she lived long enough to reach adulthood - which we do not know.

Tarth:

I really don't think that Tarth was important enough for a political Targaryen match. It is just a relatively poor island, and there is no reason to believe that the Blackfyres would land there or close to Tarth. In fact, we don't know where Bittersteel and Haegon landed in 219 AC, or if they landed at multiple sights. But we know that Aerys I has a royal fleet, and Bloodraven has the ships close-by to counter any Blackfyre attack by sea. That should be sufficient - or rather, I don't think that Tarth has enough ships of its own to be a either a huge asset to the Targaryens or a major threat to them should they declare for the Blackfyres.

Historically, we also know that Tarth is weakly defended/not that strong, as it was partially captured by pirates during the reign of Jaehaerys I - which led to Prince Aemon's untimely death.

Maegor:

Yandel has not reason to mention him further if ended in obscurity/poverty in Essos or if he and all his children died at Summerhall. Both facts would be known to people in Westeros, and thus nobody would ever ask after Maegor's descendants or his/their claims. Just as nobody asks about Duncan and Jenny's children - which either means they do not exist or they died at Summerhall.

If Maegor the Great Council was the only important event in Maegor's life then it would make sense that Yandel only mentions him there. However, due to the unique 'Tell nothing' style on the reigns of Maekar I and Aegon V it is even possible that Maegor rose to prominence at court or became a nemesis of Aegon V in later years - we simply do not know. However, I doubt it that Maegor led a rebellion against Egg as I think this could have been hinted at in the story.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Lord Varys,

I see two options regarding Kiera.

She could have married Daeron a year following Valarr's death. It would still bind Tyrosh to House Targaryen, and not only to House Blackfyre, though Kiera's position would have become less optimal. Her marriage to Valarr occurred during Daeron II's reign, after all, and that marriage was a promise of making her a future Queen. A marriage to Daeron, in this stage, wouldn't get her in the position of Queen. Rhaegel wasn't an option, as he would have already been married, and the fact that she wasn't married to Aelor, could then suggest that Aelor and Aelora were already married by the time of Valarr's death (or at the very least, betrothed).

This option would mean a marriage of some 12 years, before a child was born. Uncommon, but not impossible. Look at Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully, who were married for 9 years before they had a child. And Kiera did had some stillbirths during her marriage to Valarr, it could be that she miscarried/had stillbirths in the first few years of her marriage to Daeron as well.

The second option is that Kiera was married to Daeron only after Maekar had become heir to the throne (217), which would make Daeron second in line, and put him in the same position Valarr had been in when he got married. A marriage to Daeron at this point in time, would have been another promise that Kiera would become Queen.

It would also mean, however, that it would appear that House Targaryen made no attempt to bind Tyrosh to their side in the 8 years after Valarr's death, while House Blackfyre still had ties.

[Lord Varys]

Any attempt to marry Kiera to another Targaryen prince could have been thwarted by Kiera returning to Tyrosh after Valarr's death. If Daeron had already been married to her during TSS/TMK we should have heard about that, especially as Kiera is implicitly mentioned as Valarr's wife in TMK.

If she was back in Tyrosh there is also little reason to assume that she returned to marry Daeron after Maekar became Prince of Dragonstone. But perhaps she was taken captive during the Third Rebellion. That could work/make sense if she was Rohanne's younger sister and closer related to the Blackfyres than we previously thought.

The original match between Valarr and Kiera could then have been an attempt by Daeron II to create a peace between the Targaryens and the Blackfyres following the Redgrass Field, especially if he knew/suspected that Rohanne had not exactly been in favor of this whole rebellion thing.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Why would it be so strange for her to return to Westeros to marry Daeron, after Maekar became Prince of Dragonstone?