Tyrion and Sansa will be King and Queen

[VictarionsSmokingFist]

Well thought out and very detailed. One thing that's always bothered me about the possibility of a "Cleganebowl" of UnGregor serving as Cersei's champion and Sandor as that of the Faith. The elder brother is very clear that The Hound, that is, the violent side of Sandor, is dead. That Sandor is at peace. Add to that he is wounded, not near healthy enough to face his brother even if he wanted to, which apparently he does not. Sandor lived to kill his brother, it is said. That was already done, was it not? What purpose would it serve to "kill" the reanimated body of a dead man? That corpse is NOT his brother. And while many people in the 7 kingdoms know of The Mountains death and of his head being in Dorne, thereby increasing the odds that even the Quiet Isle may have heard of it...nobody knows that Sandor is alive, or converted to the faith. How could he possibly be ready to champion for the faith in this matter? Someone would have to know he's there (they don't) he would need to heal (he can't) travel to King's Landing and fight a thing he doesn't need to, for reasons that no longer exist, and has no real incentive to risk his life, or the potential freedom of Cersei Lannister over. To say it's "obvious" that this fight happens is a stretch.

[chrisdaw]

^^^^ He's not fighting Cersei's trial, he will fight Sansa's trial. Even if you rule him out of fighting Cersei's trial, why would you ever consider Sandor not fighting Ungregor?

That's only possible if you stop considering everything else that's happening in the narrative, and make some iffy historical comparisons.

Iffy, I like that word, as though there is some random forces at work that could be the culprit, that it could have been GRRM or it could be pure randomness that results in Jaehaerys building drains or Viserys being dropped into conversation for Tyrion to defend.

Let's do some narrative exploration though.

A great chunk of time has been dedicated to explaining Tyrion's desire to be loved and demonstrating how he is susceptible to being manipulated by a young beautiful woman who can make him feel like he is loved. On the other side of the tracks we've been looking through the eyes of a beautiful young girl watching players rise on the back of their manipulations, manipulations including keeping up a pretense of affection and love. Somehow these two characters ended up married.

Could it mean something? Could there be some future narrative relevance to Tyrion's defining character flaw, Sansa's passive player training and them having been locked together in matrimony?

Iffy.

[King Jaime Lannister]

As to the OP, I thought this was going to be centered around Tyrion and Sansa's relationship. Yes there is a chance Tyrion or Sansa could end up as a king or queen, respectively. But I don't see any evidence in the thread as to why it will happen at once.

I have always thought there was a good chance that marriage could be revived. Tyrion was very kind to not force himself on Sansa. The marriage was never consummated. If Tyrion and Sansa never meet again, then that was kind of a waste in the plot. Martin is always trying to cut down words and pages. He could have had Joffery murdered without those two being married. What purpose did it serve to the greater plot if their relationship never becomes a conflict involving both parties later on? I always thought husband not forcing his wife into submission was not just characterization for Tyrion, but more building point for the future of the story.

[Night's King Reborn]

For one thing, the current system of succession would have to be totally thrown away (by the Others, etc.?) to make the elective monarchy necessary to have Tyrion be a candidate for kingship. And given his current reputation, attaintment for patricide and regicide, and prejudices against his physical appearance I would find it highly implausible if at the end of all things he is suddenly the best option available.

[Scorpion92]

The only way I can see Tyrion and Sansa ruling Westeros is through Jon and Dany's heir.

Once King of Winter Jon Stark and Dragon Queen Daenerys Targaryen marry and solidify "the pact of ice and fire" (which is hinted in the TWOIAF with "blacks" promising to marry Targaryen princess to Cregan Stark or his heir),they need to produce an heir. Then they both need to eat dust (Dany probably dies in childbirth and Jon dies as well,maybe of grief, or brings winter further to Essos to reclaim his wife's conquered territories or even wage war to Braavos,it is not important),leaving Jon and Dany's heir as the future king.

It means that while the kid gets to right age to rule, his aunt princess Sansa Stark (since Starks will be a royal house of Westeros I believe,that is why she is a princess now) will rule the kingdom as his surrogate mother and Queen Regent. Since she is married to Tyrion, who probably is the Hand that time, he will be performing the duties of King Regent.

That is the only way I can see Tyrion and Sansa ruling Westeros, as regents to Jon and Dany's kid.

[Woman of War]

It is interesting to see this thread revived after the turns the show has taken in season 5.

So now Sansa and Tyrion being married as plot device to save Sansa's virginity is out of the way.
What other purpose does the marriage serve? Martin wouldn't put a first row character like Tyrion and a nearly as important character like Sansa into one complex storyline together without a very important story payoff, there must be more than that all purpose argument "character growth": Damsel gets some distress and the antihero has a moment of humiliation and a moment to show his complex yet positive morality. Could have been done with less effort.
Martin for sure did not forget about that existing marriage even if the show seems to have done so. Yet I bet they did not.
But there are two questions in the op:
Will Tyrion and Sansa - if they survive - decide to stay or better said to come together?
And will they be king and queen?
The first post is well argued and yet I personally believe that while T and S may be together in the end (if they live) they might be King- or Queenmaker but not get the job themselves.

And Richard III may, recent research seems to confirm this, not have been the one who killed his brother's sons. But Shakespeare had his reasons to write him as monster not as hero.

[King Tyrion I]

It is interesting to see this thread revived after the turns the show has taken in season 5.

So now Sansa and Tyrion being married as plot device to save Sansa's virginity is out of the way.
What other purpose does the marriage serve? Martin wouldn't put a first row character like Tyrion and a nearly as important character like Sansa into one complex storyline together without a very important story payoff, there must be more than that all purpose argument "character growth": Damsel gets some distress and the antihero has a moment of humiliation and a moment to show his complex yet positive morality. Could have been done with less effort.
Martin for sure did not forget about that existing marriage even if the show seems to have done so. Yet I bet they did not.
But there are two questions in the op:
Will Tyrion and Sansa - if they survive - decide to stay or better said to come together?
And will they be king and queen?
The first post is well argued and yet I personally believe that while T and S may be together in the end (if they live) they might be King- or Queenmaker but not get the job themselves.

And Richard III may, recent research seems to confirm this, not have been the one who killed his brother's sons. But Shakespeare had his reasons to write him as monster not as hero.

 

Applause and admiration for this post! :thumbsup:

 

I'm not kidding.

 

I really like your post, Woman of War. =o)

[Woman of War]

Applause and admiration for this post! :thumbsup:
 
I'm not kidding.
 
I really like your post, Woman of War. =o)

Thank you :blushing:

[chrisdaw]

Ppl are too hung up on Dany, Dany isn't lasting long on the throne, she will be Rhaenyra'd, blue chink ice wall, blue eyed king no shadow. She's getting thrown out and going North out of the way of all the rest of the characters foreshadowing because it's not coming to pass before Aegon takes KL and it's not happening on her watch when she takes it from him.

Slot Tyrion becoming king and marrying Arya into the blackened text of the original outline and consider how it fits. Why would there be no mention of who becomes king after Jaime? Then consider why that might have been blackened out.

[Hot π]

I hope Sansa ends up with Sandor and Tyrion finds his lady wife Tysha.

[King Tyrion I]

Thank you :blushing:

 

Side note: I wanted to send you a PM, but apparently you have a full inbox. ;o)

[Woman of War]

Side note: I wanted to send you a PM, but apparently you have a full inbox. ;o)

Fixed, thank you

[Chocs]

Ppl are too hung up on Dany, Dany isn't lasting long on the throne, she will be Rhaenyra'd, blue chink ice wall, blue eyed king no shadow. She's getting thrown out and going North out of the way of all the rest of the characters foreshadowing because it's not coming to pass before Aegon takes KL and it's not happening on her watch when she takes it from him.

Slot Tyrion becoming king and marrying Arya into the blackened text of the original outline and consider how it fits. Why would there be no mention of who becomes king after Jaime? Then consider why that might have been blackened out.

 

In the original outline Tyrion was more of a third wheel than anything for J/A. Arya did not return any of his feelings and I doubt Arya would marry a person who she does not have any feelings for. And there's no indication that her story was given to Sansa. None. I highly doubt the blackened part had Tyrion as King with Arya as Queen. 

[chrisdaw]

In the original outline Tyrion was more of a third wheel than anything for J/A. Arya did not return any of his feelings and I doubt Arya would marry a person who she does not have any feelings for. And there's no indication that her story was given to Sansa. None. I highly doubt the blackened part had Tyrion as King with Arya as Queen.

Always with the feelings. Sansa and Tyrion can't stay married because feelings. How many people in Westeros have married who they love? It's a major theme, hell a character outright says it, marriage is for politics, alliances and peacemaking, marriage for love bleeds the realm. Arya marries Tyrion to mend the wounds of the realm that the war created, and on a personal note to prevent her falling further down the forbidden Jon well. Tyrion is King of the realm and has in name the woman he loves, but not what he really wants, her love (gee I wonder where this could have morphed to). Jon has the love, but not the woman, Tyrion has that. And thus the rivalry intensifies.

Will Tyrion, king of westeros, and Jon, LC at the wall, set aside their life-long rivalry and join forces in time to save the realm they've both sworn to protect? Or will their love for the same woman leave the realm at the mercy of the advancing Others?

Anything is better than a Jon Snow victory parade.

Tyrion will sit the throne when Jon comes South, Jon is going to have his parade.

[Chocs]

Always with the feelings. Sansa and Tyrion can't stay married because feelings. How many people in Westeros have married who they love? It's a major theme, hell a character outright says it, marriage is for politics, alliances and peacemaking, marriage for love bleeds the realm. Arya marries Tyrion to mend the wounds of the realm that the war created, and on a personal note to prevent her falling further down the forbidden Jon well. Tyrion is King of the realm and has in name the woman he loves, but not what he really wants, her love (gee I wonder where this could have morphed to). Jon has the love, but not the woman, Tyrion has that. And thus the rivalry intensifies.

Will Tyrion, king of westeros, and Jon, LC at the wall, set aside their life-long rivalry and join forces in time to save the realm they've both sworn to protect? Or will their love for the same woman leave the realm at the mercy of the advancing Others?
Tyrion will sit the throne when Jon comes South, Jon is going to have his parade.

 

How does any of this fit into Tyrion/Sansa? Tyrion was never married to Arya in the outline. He had intense feelings for her, which led to the rivalry; quite the contrary with Sansa. Tyrion's part in Winterfell has more than likely been changed to Ramsay. Now unless you're implying that Sansa will rule the Seven Kingdoms with Ramsay.. idk how any of this makes sense. I think you're purposely forgetting how Arya is.. she couldn't care any less about the SK. Jon is not in love with Sansa, neither is Tyrion. So where does the rivalry even come from? The rivalry part does seem to fit with Ramsay though. 

[spoon89]

It is interesting to see this thread revived after the turns the show has taken in season 5.

So now Sansa and Tyrion being married as plot device to save Sansa's virginity is out of the way.
What other purpose does the marriage serve? Martin wouldn't put a first row character like Tyrion and a nearly as important character like Sansa into one complex storyline together without a very important story payoff, there must be more than that all purpose argument "character growth": Damsel gets some distress and the antihero has a moment of humiliation and a moment to show his complex yet positive morality. Could have been done with less effort.
Martin for sure did not forget about that existing marriage even if the show seems to have done so. Yet I bet they did not.
But there are two questions in the op:
Will Tyrion and Sansa - if they survive - decide to stay or better said to come together?
And will they be king and queen?
The first post is well argued and yet I personally believe that while T and S may be together in the end (if they live) they might be King- or Queenmaker but not get the job themselves.

And Richard III may, recent research seems to confirm this, not have been the one who killed his brother's sons. But Shakespeare had his reasons to write him as monster not as hero.

 

Nice post.

 

In the end I think that T+S will end up working out and they will end up as political power couple. Tyrion as Hand to whomever is on the IT and Sansa, his most trusted adviser, ruling the Rock in her husbands name (a mirroring of Tywin and Joanna).

[chrisdaw]

How does any of this fit into Tyrion/Sansa? Tyrion was never married to Arya in the outline. He had intense feelings for her, which led to the rivalry; quite the contrary with Sansa. Tyrion's part in Winterfell has more than likely been changed to Ramsay. Now unless you're implying that Sansa will rule the Seven Kingdoms with Ramsay.. idk how any of this makes sense. I think you're purposely forgetting how Arya is.. she couldn't care any less about the SK. Jon is not in love with Sansa, neither is Tyrion. So where does the rivalry even come from? The rivalry part does seem to fit with Ramsay though.

What are you talking about? The blackened out text contains Tyrion and Arya as king and queen and it's blackened out because it's too close to Tyrion and Sansa as king and queen.

[Orphalesion]

What if instead of Richard III and Anne Neville, Tyrion and Sansa are Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York? Tyrion is exiled to the "continent" like Henry and their union would end the Wars of the Roses between the Starks and the Lannisters....

 

They wouldn't necessary have to end up as King and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms for that, Lord and Lady of Casterly Rock and/or Winterflell would be enough imho...

[Chocs]

What are you talking about? The blackened out text contains Tyrion and Arya as king and queen and it's blackened out because it's too close to Tyrion and Sansa as king and queen.

 

Lol and how does T/A: Queen/King = T/S: Queen/King?

[chrisdaw]

Lol and how does T/A: Queen/King = T/S: Queen/King?

Because when you have half the real series in front of you seeing an original outline with T+A sitting the throne and Arya being nothing like the real text Arya and real text Sansa and Tyrion being the married ones, it's a tiny jump from there to king Tyrion and queen Sansa. Thus, blackened. It's really simple.