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Longclaw is Dark Sister. Jeor Mormont knew Jon would be coming


Varamyr6skins

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It just occurred to me....



What if Jeor Mormont was in league with Bloodraven?



There are a couple different things that lead credence to it. For one, We all know for the most part the Mormont's raven is constantly being warged by Blooraven. Wouldn't be cool if Mormont knew? If you think about it, in terms of Mormont knowing about Bloodraven and being in communication with him, in one fashion or another, things start to look differently.



One that pops out at me is When Jeor asks Jon his feelings about going with the Halfhand, Jon says "to go"...Mormont's response is "I thought it would be"




And yes Mormont gave the sword to Jon after Jon killed the wight, saving Jeor's life, But maybe Jeor knew that would happen. Maybe Longclaw is Dark Sister and was placed in the care of Jeor Mormont before Bloodraven went Weirwood 5.0.



Assuming Bloodraven took the sword with him to the wall, which I don't see why he wouldn't have been allowed to by Aegon the 5th.



Jeor Mormont is more closely associated with the cultures of the First men than pretty much any other Brother of the Night's Watch.



The whole story of Jorah leaving the sword could just be a story.




Maybe the sword is too far out there, hand and a half sword, long sword...whatever.....But I'm still inclined to believe that Mormont knows about Bloodraven. more so that Bloodraven is in his pet raven. A little weird having a pet raven is it not? Especially for a man of Jeor's age and authority.


And there are other things....



Halfhand's remark "I've been told a Dire Wolf runs with you."



I found that to be a little odd. Why would the Half Hand know about that. Being at the Shadow Tower and all. Who told him? Mormont? Why?



Felt a little odd that the Half hand would want to take a steward, and an inexperienced steward at that with him on his scouting the frostfangs.



I feel deeply that there is something, or was something more to Jeor Mormont and Qorin Halfhand than we are led to believe.




Thoughts...?














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Dark Sister is a small weapon, not a big bastard sword like Longclaw.



We don't know for sure if the raven's words are in there for foreshadowing, added by Martin or if they have an in-story origin. We don't really even have enough evidence to make a sound guess. Now, I don't put it past Jeor maybe knowing something about BR, but if he knew about the wights, why didn't he burn them on sight before the tower burned? He seemed perplexed by them, but not "in the know", and this isn't chronic liar Littlefinger we're talking about.



ETA: Creighton beat me to it.


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Yes the sword thing is off...But still, the raven is pretty much a given to be Bloodraven. If you deny that, you're unintelligently analyzing the data.



There are so many references that the Raven says and does things that point to it having more intelligent, human motives.



The biggest example to me is when Jon Snow is selected as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, and the Raven bursts from the Kettle lands on Jon Snow.



Even further when Ser Aliser Thorne says that Samwell Tarly taught the bird all sorts of tricks, and points out that Mormonts bird knew more words than "Snow"...The raven then intelligently shuts Aliser up by saying "Corn?"....and then "Kettle?"



It's pretty clear for anyone with half a brain reading the story that the Raven is Bloodraven, atleast up to the point in the story when Bran becomes linked via Weirwood network.



The question is Did Mormont know? and what implications does it have for the story if the answer is yes

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I find this theory super interesting and I just looked up Dark Sister and Blackfyre on wikipedia, and was surprised because Blackfyre is a bastard (hand-and-a-half sword). Perhaps its foreshadowing that Jon will eventually trade Long Claw for another bastard sword made of Valyrian steel...


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It just occurred to me....

What if Jeor Mormont was in league with Bloodraven?

There are a couple different things that lead credence to it. For one, We all know for the most part the Mormont's raven is constantly being warged by Blooraven. Wouldn't be cool if Mormont knew? If you think about it, in terms of Mormont knowing about Bloodraven and being in communication with him, in one fashion or another, things start to look differently.

One that pops out at me is When Jeor asks Jon his feelings about going with the Halfhand, Jon says "to go"...Mormont's response is "I thought it would be"

And yes Mormont gave the sword to Jon after Jon killed the wight, saving Jeor's life, But maybe Jeor knew that would happen. Maybe Longclaw is Dark Sister and was placed in the care of Jeor Mormont before Bloodraven went Weirwood 5.0.

Assuming Bloodraven took the sword with him to the wall, which I don't see why he wouldn't have been allowed to by Aegon the 5th.

Jeor Mormont is more closely associated with the cultures of the First men than pretty much any other Brother of the Night's Watch.

The whole story of Jorah leaving the sword could just be a story.

Maybe the sword is too far out there, hand and a half sword, long sword...whatever.....But I'm still inclined to believe that Mormont knows about Bloodraven. more so that Bloodraven is in his pet raven. A little weird having a pet raven is it not? Especially for a man of Jeor's age and authority.

And there are other things....

Halfhand's remark "I've been told a Dire Wolf runs with you."

I found that to be a little odd. Why would the Half Hand know about that. Being at the Shadow Tower and all. Who told him? Mormont? Why?

Felt a little odd that the Half hand would want to take a steward, and an inexperienced steward at that with him on his scouting the frostfangs.

I feel deeply that there is something, or was something more to Jeor Mormont and Qorin Halfhand than we are led to believe.

Thoughts...?

As we in Jons pov its common for letters and people to travel between castles. Ned Starks bastard showing up with a wolf a Dire Wolf let alone would be a common topic of discussion.

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No.



Apart from all the conspiratorial nonsense, Longclaw is a bastard sword/hand-and-a-half sword. Dark Sister is a longsword, moreover, one that is specifically forged for a woman's hand. Longclaw, even before the hilt is altered, has a standard grip-one made for a man.


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I actually really like the idea that Longclaw might be Dark Sister. I don't remember any of the other Mormonts ever referring to it - and it seems like the kind of thing that might be worth a mention, even in passing. Furthermore, if this theory is true, and Jon gets a chance to deliver Jeor's regrets to Jorah, he would likely find out, which would be a big alert to him that something surrounding either the sword, the Lord Commandership, or himself is off. Thus, Jeor's request might have a dual purpose. I think it's a little crackpot, but it's definitely fun.






No.



Apart from all the conspiratorial nonsense, Longclaw is a bastard sword/hand-and-a-half sword. Dark Sister is a longsword, moreover, one that is specifically forged for a woman's hand. Longclaw, even before the hilt is altered, has a standard grip-one made for a man.





The distinction between a longsword and a bastard sword is contemporary. Outside of D&D, the terms 'bastard sword', 'hand-and-a-half sword', and 'long sword' all refer to the same type of weapon from the high/late medieval period. Prior to this, the common sword design was the one-handed arming sword, which many people think of as a 'longsword', but 'longsword' more properly refers to the same style and size weapons we might call bastard swords.

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Yes the sword thing is off...But still, the raven is pretty much a given to be Bloodraven. If you deny that, you're unintelligently analyzing the data.

There are so many references that the Raven says and does things that point to it having more intelligent, human motives.

The biggest example to me is when Jon Snow is selected as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, and the Raven bursts from the Kettle lands on Jon Snow.

Even further when Ser Aliser Thorne says that Samwell Tarly taught the bird all sorts of tricks, and points out that Mormonts bird knew more words than "Snow"...The raven then intelligently shuts Aliser up by saying "Corn?"....and then "Kettle?"

It's pretty clear for anyone with half a brain reading the story that the Raven is Bloodraven, atleast up to the point in the story when Bran becomes linked via Weirwood network.

The question is Did Mormont know? and what implications does it have for the story if the answer is yes

Thank you for your snot-nosed, bratty response. I'm being sincere -- thank you; Now I'm no longer obligated to pretend to respect your "theory". :)

Calling my analysis unintelligent when you clearly have no comprehension that some things are put into stories as foreshadowing/literary nuance is pretty ironic, especially when you missed such a huge difference as that of a bastard sword in contrast to a light one-handed sword made for a dexterous fighter type. You strike me as pretty young, and your literary education is probably high school level, so I will give you a little tidbit, totally free: Not everything written is literal. Some things are there to hint to the reader, or to make for interesting world-building. Not everything in GRRM's world is a conspiracy theory, and I find it simply ridiculous that people think that ol' BR is warging into everything from Balerion the cat to Mormont's raven to probably Tormund's fucking bear. He's a bad dude for sure, and is capable of amazing things, but I see no reason thus far for him to give a mummer's fart about Jon Snow or the Night's Watch when all of his interest seems to be on Bran. I think it's even more idiotic to imply that Mormont and the bird are having deep conversations by the fireplace when no one is around. The bird mimicks things people say, like most talking birds. Yes, the word choices are interesting, but until given reason to assume otherwise, I'm calling foreshadowing, not literal conspiracy. I realize that you must have worked really, really hard on this bone-headed nonsense, so my derision must have been really hurtful, but seriously, take your hurt feelings somewhere else. I don't want them. Instead of angsting on me because I dared disagree with your oh-so-intelligent reading, how about you give me some textual evidence? There's a novel concept, eh? At this point, anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and being a rude little shit doesn't make you look any better.

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Yes the sword thing is off...But still, the raven is pretty much a given to be Bloodraven. If you deny that, you're unintelligently analyzing the data.

There are so many references that the Raven says and does things that point to it having more intelligent, human motives.

The biggest example to me is when Jon Snow is selected as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, and the Raven bursts from the Kettle lands on Jon Snow.

Even further when Ser Aliser Thorne says that Samwell Tarly taught the bird all sorts of tricks, and points out that Mormonts bird knew more words than "Snow"...The raven then intelligently shuts Aliser up by saying "Corn?"....and then "Kettle?"

It's pretty clear for anyone with half a brain reading the story that the Raven is Bloodraven, atleast up to the point in the story when Bran becomes linked via Weirwood network.

The question is Did Mormont know? and what implications does it have for the story if the answer is yes

I hate to rain on your parade but pretty much everyone knows about the Raven, and Ghost if you have not made that connection yet. The raven and everything it has ever said has been analyzed to death for the last 2 decades. Did Mormont know? No he did not, and Aemon clearly did not know or he would of sent Sam back to Jon and had him go to Dany.

Jon saves Mormonts life, Jon is smart, Jon is skilled, Jon can read and write, Jon is the Son of Ned Stark and Nephew of First ranger Benjen Stark, so Mormont took him under his wing. Why? Because it is slim pickens at the wall, and Jon saved his life, and is the son of his biggest supporter, who is/was the Warden of the North. And more than that, Jon became an adopted son figure to Mormont, and he gave Jon the sword that his own son shamed.

Yes Bloodraven knows who Jon is, he is essentially a historical demi god.

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Dark Sister is a small weapon, not a big bastard sword like Longclaw.

We don't know for sure if the raven's words are in there for foreshadowing, added by Martin or if they have an in-story origin. We don't really even have enough evidence to make a sound guess. Now, I don't put it past Jeor maybe knowing something about BR, but if he knew about the wights, why didn't he burn them on sight before the tower burned? He seemed perplexed by them, but not "in the know", and this isn't chronic liar Littlefinger we're talking about.

ETA: Creighton beat me to it.

Bastard swords aren't big. We don't know how small Dark Sister is. It was made for Visenya and she was pretty bad-ass. She might be able to handle something larger than a bastard (hand and a half) sword.

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The distinction between a longsword and a bastard sword is contemporary. Outside of D&D, the terms 'bastard sword', 'hand-and-a-half sword', and 'long sword' all refer to the same type of weapon from the high/late medieval period. Prior to this, the common sword design was the one-handed arming sword, which many people think of as a 'longsword', but 'longsword' more properly refers to the same style and size weapons we might call bastard swords.

Fine, you've got me. I used improper terminology.

The point is still the same.

Longclaw is a significantly bigger sword than Dark Sister. One is designed to be wielded primarily with 2 hands by a big and burly man. The other is exclusively 1 handed, to be used by a slender woman.

They are different swords. Period.

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Lady BeeftHeart



You have so much hate in your heart and life. You wrote so many contradictory things anyone who reads what you wrote a couple postings up will see so I don't have to point each out...



About the sword, I stated that Dark Sister was not a Hand and a half sword...I myself corrected my own mistake in the title of the Post. Blackfyre is a Hand and half sword. Technically, Long Claw could be Blackfyre.



And I gave a VERY clear example of the Raven making a premeditated decision of knowing to be in the right Kettle at the right time, and do the exact right thing at the right time and say the exact right thin at the right time..When Jon was elected Lord Commander and the raven flew out the Kettle and flew to Jon and said his name and then right after Ser Alliser calls into the question the Raven not being Mormont's Raven, the Raven immediately proves them wrong and thus having an influential role in the choosing of the LOrd Commander of the night's watch.



Bloodraven knew the having Janos Slynt as Lord Cmmander would lead the watch and the defense of the realm down a dark road. He also knew that Jon would be a much smarter choice, (probably because we KNOW that Blood Raven can see the future, and most likely saw a future of how Jon would make peace with men north of the wall and permit the Wildings into the realm, thus diminishing the Wights army)



Now in my original post, Which ultimately was a question, but your hate LadyBeefHeart, blinded you and thought I was blabbering about a whacky conspiracy crackpot theory, I made point to reference that my question was only including the time leading up to Bran sitting on his Weirwood throne. Because after that Mormonts raven could possibly be warged by either Bloodraven OR Bran.



So I have clearly proven how Mormonts raven is most likely warged by Bloodraven and OR Bran. We also see more clear evidence in The Winds of Winter Chapter we have, Theon I. The Ravens brought by Arnolfs Maester or Boltons depending on how u look at it,


show signs of being warged when they react to Asha and Theon. saying Theons Name, Just like the Weirwood tree in WInterfell that had Brans face. and "THE TREE THE TREE THE TREE" to kill theon at the weirwood out on the island.



BOOM GIRL.



the question is did Mormont know? and was there anything more to Mormont? Could Long Claw be BlackFyre?











Now Mormont was more closely associated

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I hate to rain on your parade but pretty much everyone knows about the Raven, and Ghost if you have not made that connection yet. The raven and everything it has ever said has been analyzed to death for the last 2 decades. Did Mormont know? No he did not, and Aemon clearly did not know or he would of sent Sam back to Jon and had him go to Dany.

Jon saves Mormonts life, Jon is smart, Jon is skilled, Jon can read and write, Jon is the Son of Ned Stark and Nephew of First ranger Benjen Stark, so Mormont took him under his wing. Why? Because it is slim pickens at the wall, and Jon saved his life, and is the son of his biggest supporter, who is/was the Warden of the North. And more than that, Jon became an adopted son figure to Mormont, and he gave Jon the sword that his own son shamed.

Yes Bloodraven knows who Jon is, he is essentially a historical demi god.

Also consider that Mormont was old (i.e. about 68 years old).

So, Jon was the best young canidate to groom for leadership (just take a look at the other recruit who graduated from training with Jon).

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Fine, you've got me. I used improper terminology.

The point is still the same.

Longclaw is a significantly bigger sword than Dark Sister. One is designed to be wielded primarily with 2 hands by a big and burly man. The other is exclusively 1 handed, to be used by a slender woman.

They are different swords. Period.

My point wasn't get get you with a terminology trap - my point is that although Dark Sister is made a little smaller to be easier for a female wielder, I've always heard it described as a longsword, which would also make it a bastard sword or hand-and-a-half sword, albeit with smaller hands. I do not know that Longclaw is especially big or that Dark Sister is otherwise exclusively one-handed. If GRRM uses the terminology correctly, referring to Dark Sister as a longsword does not at all invalidate it being Longclaw.

I do want to stress that I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, I'm just unconvinced by this argument, and it's not because of the terminology.

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