Longclaw is Dark Sister. Jeor Mormont knew Jon would be coming

[denny717]

I seriously think jon has blackfyre. In WoIaF it says Haegon was cut down treacherously inthe aftermath of the 3rd blackfyre rebellion, after throwing down his sword. It doesn't mention if this is specifically blackfyre, but I think it is. Aegon and blood raven were both at that battle. Later on blood raven kills aenys blackfyre by tricking him into thinking he was invited to great council. This great coucil, which was blood ravens idea, is thought to be his downfall, because the new king arrests him and sends him to NW. But I personally believe that he was working with aegon. They were both all about the prophecies, that is common speculation. I think that sword was brought north with blood raven because it has something to do with a prophecy that I don't know enough about to actually explain.

Sorry for another crackpot theory, but it just strikes me as odd that jorah goes into exile without the valyrian sword, presumably because it's his families precious heirloom, and yet jeor gives it away to someone else. Obviously he sees the good in jon, and appreciates his heroism, but he's already grooming him for leadership, and a priceless family heirloom? I think that sword was destined to go to assor ahai, and the mormont family knew that. I think blackfyre is light bringer.

[Lord Reaper oOo]

Aye, this is castle forged tin foil.

Mikkens work, no doubt.

[PrinceHenryris]

"Longclaw" is a fiction. Jeor might have been too proud to sell it to Tywin, but there's no way (IMO) Jorah wouldn't have sold it. The gold would have been more than enough to keep Lynesse happy. If he'd had such a blade there's no way he would have gotten into the slave trade knowing that Ned and Ice would be on the way if he got caught.

Even if Jorah held out as long as he could, he wouldn't have left a VS sword behind. That thing's worth a fortune.

Now, let's accept the other possibility that, Jorah had to leave in a hurry and left "LongClaw" behind, there's no way Maege Mormont would have sent it to her brother at the wall. It's simply too valuable. Even if Maege preferred Her mace, I'd bet at least one of her girls would have liked a VS sword.

[PrinceHenryris]

To me, the difference between a bastard sword and a long sword depends on the grip and how far the tang extends.

Dark Sister was Visyena's blade. She was the larger and stronger wife/sister of Aegon, so the blade might not have been that small. After Visenya's death, we know that both the Dragonknight and Bloodraven wielded it. It's more than likely it was regripped. Maybe the new grips changed it into a hand-and-a-half sword?

[Humble Maester]

One blade is described to be significantly larger than the other. How can this "theory" stand at all?

I might also add that Visenya is the most likely of the two to garb herself as a warrior, and when so garbed, she would wield the Valyrian longsword Dark Sister, whose slender blade is designed for a woman's hand

-SSM

The pommel was a hunk of pale stone weighted with lead to balance the long blade .... The blade itself was a good half foot longer than those Jon was used to, tapered to thrust as well as slash, with three fullers deeply incised in the metal. Where Ice was a true two-handed greatsword, this was a hand-and-a-halfer, sometimes named a “bastard sword.”

-GoT

Do those two swords sound anything alike?

Also to everyone blabbering on about how "bastard sword is not it's own distinctive kind, except in D&D", I think that quote proves you 100% wrong. Clearly it is a sword larger than regular, not quite a two handed sword.

[Satin fetch me a cock!]

I believe that is the only reason Dark Sister exists in the story. When he decided on 'Dragonsteel' Needle obviously wasn't going to cut it, so he made a blade wielded by a female warrior. It has never been used by a woman since, it has been in the hands of legendary men. It fits with key points of Arya's character 'The woman matters too', 'Girl, Boy, you are a sword'. Rhaenys never had an equivalent it seems, even ceremonially. Also, Visenya's skill seems to be her speed, the same as Arya's. I believe Bloodraven has it, to pass to Jon through Bran/Meera/Hodor. Jon will then give it to Arya.

You could also argue that Bran wasn't alive then either, and yet, Bloodraven called him to the Weirwood cave. So it is absolutely possible that Bloodraven visited Mormont in dreams and encouraged him to join the NW. He could have also given the sword to a Mormont ancestor.

[johndance]

One blade is described to be significantly larger than the other. How can this "theory" stand at all?

Do those two swords sound anything alike?

Also to everyone blabbering on about how "bastard sword is not it's own distinctive kind, except in D&D", I think that quote proves you 100% wrong. Clearly it is a sword larger than regular, not quite a two handed sword.

This. it's a cool thought but there is no chance the 2 swords are the same. I've read some people think longclaw = blackfyre. While this is probably unlikely this is actually more realistic.

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

I actually really like the idea that Longclaw might be Dark Sister. I don't remember any of the other Mormonts ever referring to it - and it seems like the kind of thing that might be worth a mention, even in passing. Furthermore, if this theory is true, and Jon gets a chance to deliver Jeor's regrets to Jorah, he would likely find out, which would be a big alert to him that something surrounding either the sword, the Lord Commandership, or himself is off. Thus, Jeor's request might have a dual purpose. I think it's a little crackpot, but it's definitely fun.

The distinction between a longsword and a bastard sword is contemporary. Outside of D&D, the terms 'bastard sword', 'hand-and-a-half sword', and 'long sword' all refer to the same type of weapon from the high/late medieval period. Prior to this, the common sword design was the one-handed arming sword, which many people think of as a 'longsword', but 'longsword' more properly refers to the same style and size weapons we might call bastard swords.

No.

I have a bastard sword and a longsword side by side in the room in which I type this. I use them both at the sword club. They are different.

The longsword's blade is about 6 in. longer and the grip is extended (+ w/ an extended pommel to balance the fulcrum effect. Two handed all the way.

A hand&ahalf/bastard sword can be used two handed and get good leverage but is manageable with one hand.

An arming sword is what most of the sworsd on the HBO show are closer to. A short grip, wielded comfortably with one hand, really should be used in conjunction with a shield.

Stop LARPing and get into HEMA.

[Humble Maester]

This. it's a cool thought but there is no chance the 2 swords are the same. I've read some people think longclaw = blackfyre. While this is probably unlikely this is actually more realistic.

There is nothing in the details of the swords preventing that as far as I know. Still pretty unlikely that blackfyre would end up north (especially as plot-wise it would make sense that (f)Aegon got it).

[Connartist92]

It's a popular theory that Bloodraven controls Lord Commander Mormont's talking raven. I'm currently rereading AGOT and came across a very interesting passage that would support the idea that Longclaw is indeed one of the lost blades of House Targaryen.

"Corn," the raven was crying. "Corn, corn."

"Oh be quiet," the Old Bear told it. "Snow, how soon does Maester Aemon say you'll have the use of that hand back?"

"Soon," Jon replied.

"Good." On the table between them, Lord Mormont laid a large silver sword in a black metal scabbard banded with silver. "Here. You'll be ready for this, then."

The raven flapped down and landed on the table, strutting towards the sword, head cocked curiously. Jon hesitated. He had no inkling what this meant. "My lord?"

"The fire melted the silver off the pommel and burnt the crossguard and grip. Well, dry leather and old wood, what could you expect? The blade, now... you'd need a fire a hundred times as hot to harm the blade." Mormont shoved the scabbard across the rough oak planks. "I had the rest made anew. Take it."

"Take it," echoed his raven, preening. "Take it, take it."

I will admit that a few lines down from here, Mormont claims that Longclaw has been in his family for five centuries, but he certainly hasn't been around that long to attest to that without question.

I definitely find it curious that the raven (and most likely Bloodraven) are so adamant that Jon take this sword.

[Mithras]

This theory is somewhere between

Mance=Rhaegar

Daario=Euron (or Benjen)

HS=HR

etc.

and

Tywin=Dusky Woman

Varys=Theon from Future

Bran=Willas

etc.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It's a popular theory that Bloodraven controls Lord Commander Mormont's talking raven. I'm currently rereading AGOT and came across a very interesting passage that would support the idea that Longclaw is indeed one of the lost blades of House Targaryen.

I will admit that a few lines down from here, Mormont claims that Longclaw has been in his family for five centuries, but he certainly hasn't been around that long to attest to that without question.

I definitely find it curious that the raven (and most likely Bloodraven) are so adamant that Jon take this sword.

The special snowflake is gonna drawvthat sword from the fire.

[ICRYRAGE]

There is a good chance that Bloodraven was manipulating Mormont a lot though the Ravens and part of this manipulation was to get him to give Long Claw to Jon. Long Claw could protect Jon from the others in case he ran into any and Bloodraven likely knows Jon's heritage and would like to protect him. Then Ghost (being warged by Bloodraven) leads Jon to the dragon glass, which is more protection against the others.
So is Bloodraven trying to protect Jon... most likely, but this does not make Long Claw, Dark Sister. There is no evidence that the Mormonts did not have the sword for centuries and in the fight against the others I think it is more likely that there are swords out there that have yet to appear. So Long Claw does not equal Dark Sister, but yes Bloodraven got Mormont to give Jon Long Claw.

[BitsOfBrains]

Its not a bad theory at all considering BRs ties to dark sister and the Mormomts Raven (why did Jon or Jeor not ever name that thing?) and the Watch but I see two major probs.

1. And this is the main one thats been pointed out. The Swords physical descriptions are just too different. I see Dark Sister as being only slightly more robust than a bravos sword. Like a big Needle.

2. I just don't think Jeor would stoop so low as to lie to Jon. He specifically says that it was his (Jeors) then Jorrah left it when he went into exile so Maege sent it to the wall, probably as consolation or something. If it were some sort of time capsule from the past left for Jon Jeor could have kept it vague and been like "this is Nights Watch property of old. I gift it to you for your good service and as a mark of my favor" instead of the long elaborate story.

To the people who claim Jorrah would have sold off Long Claw to the hated Lannisters I disagree. For one I think he intended to return at some point and for two he would have to actually find a place to sell it. Its not like there is a pawn shop down the street from Mormont Hall. Selling your families most precious heirloom would be a complete crack head move akin to steeling grandmas silver flat wear and I just don't see Jorah as that far gone.

[Drogonthedread]

i hope jon grows a pair of extra hands when he comes back so he can wield

longclaw ., dark sister ., blackfyre ., Dawn all at the same time

[Valyrian Blade]

Yeah and Jaqen H'gar is a secret Targaryen.

[Lord Lannister]

As has been covered Dark Sister and Longclaw have completely different parameters are described. That doesn't mean I don't think Jeor's account of Longclaw as the Mormont ancestral sword doesn't add up.

1) If it had been in the Mormont family for generations and was that important to the family that even Jorah at his worst wouldn't sell it when he was hurting for money, why would Jeor give it away to a kid he barely knows? It's not as if there weren't other members of the family. Even if the sword can only be wielded by a man(which seems unlikely given how militant the Mormont women are) those women can have sons.

2) As mentioned, Jorah was hurting for money to the point he would disgrace himself and his family to provide for his wife. This was the same time Tywin was offering a fortune for a VS sword. You can argue if Jorah would've done it or not either way, but as Jeor said it's the things we love that destroy us. However well meaning Jorah's intentions were the temptation would've been hanging over his head as he was slowly losing everything. I think he'd have given into it.

3) More to the point... neither Jorah or any of the Mormont women ever mention Longclaw. Even when Dany offers Jorah a VS sword, offering a direct moment for the subject to come up, Jorah doesn't mention it even in passing.

So yeah, I'm thinking Longclaw's origins are something other than Jeor stated. But Dark Sister? I don't think so.

[Rippounet]

Wow, dunno why this theory gets so much hate. The mockery is kind of disturbing.

Lord Lannister, I agree 100%. Not Dark Sister, but another famed VS is a possibility.

This is an instance where we only have a single character telling something, and no other to confirm. So questioning Mormont's story seems legit.

The alternative is more likely though: Mormont gave Jon the VS because he saw the potential in him and the story is true. Jorah just doesn't mention it because it's a bit painful for him to think of what he lost.

[Brlackenwood]

2) As mentioned, Jorah was hurting for money to the point he would disgrace himself and his family to provide for his wife. This was the same time Tywin was offering a fortune for a VS sword. You can argue if Jorah would've done it or not either way, but as Jeor said it's the things we love that destroy us. However well meaning Jorah's intentions were the temptation would've been hanging over his head as he was slowly losing everything. I think he'd have given into it.

If he did sold the original Longclaw to Tywin Lannister, then how come Lannisters don't have that sword? Tywin doesn't strike as a guy who would spend a fortune on a VS sword just to keep it hidden in some dusty chest.

[SerJarilLowther]

I don't understand why some people hate the very old and cool- yes poor- Mormont House so much and deny them the possibility to have kept a very rare and previous sword over history. That story is much more sexy that the dark sister plot to me. Blackfyre is in Essos, I feel, where Bittersteel left her. The Raven however... is Bloodraven or at least some Warg who survived in this body- maybe a Stark. My problem with the BR overploting theory and giving the Starks their Wolfs is that at my knowledge he is not that powerful and not able to create 6 Wargs with 6 Starks kids...