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If Sam had tried?


Seaworth'sShipmate

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If Sam Tarly had tried to be what his father expected of him, would his father still have shipped him off to the wall?



Lets say that even if the things his father wanted him to do but didn't come naturally to him ( hunting, swordsmanship, archery, etc.) Lets say Sam tried at those.



Even if he didn't become a first class warrior/huntsman would Randyll have viewed him as more worthy?



I feel bad for Sam, honest I do, and think Randyll was way too hard on him. But Sam really almost acted like some Westerosi Winnie the pooh, always trying to eat snacks and just laze around and play beautiful music. Nothing against any of the above, just saying.


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If Sam Tarly had tried to be what his father expected of him, would his father still have shipped him off to the wall?

Lets say that even if the things his father wanted him to do but didn't come naturally to him ( hunting, swordsmanship, archery, etc.) Lets say Sam tried at those.

Even if he didn't become a first class warrior/huntsman would Randyll have viewed him as more worthy?

I feel bad for Sam, honest I do, and think Randyll was way too hard on him. But Sam really almost acted like some Westerosi Winnie the pooh, always trying to eat snacks and just laze around and play beautiful music. Nothing against any of the above, just saying.

He did try. He couldn't do it. He didn't just walk around with a chicken leg in his mouth, saying, "No thanks, Pops, I'm going to go listen to a singer..."

He had fears concerning almost everything combat and hunting related. It was impossible for him to be a sub-par warrior or huntsman, and if it was possible, Lord Tarly squashed that by making him more terrified and nervous with his harshness.

This sounds bad, but in a way, I understand where Randyll was coming from. Sam could never be Lord of Horn Hill. He couldn't lead his men, protect his smallfolk, or support his overlord in battle. Randyll couldn't leave it to him in good conscience. Leaving him Heartsbane would also be a joke. But he handled it in an unnecessarily brutal way, and truth be told, he should have let him be a maester. The only reason why he didn't is because George RR Martin needed him on the Wall.

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Maybe not. He would have shown him day by day how much he was below expectations, he would have blamed his mother too, he would have favored his younger son in spite of everything and eventually he would have come to ignore his existence most of the time.

Sam will than have eaten himself to an early grave.

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To Randyll's credit, he DID try. He hired all sorts of people, tried all sorts of approaches, and Sam just didn't take. Sam's issue is that he is a coward with many phobias. He needed a shrink, but there are no such things in Westeros.

Kikajon: Sam would probably not eat his way into a early grave. Look at the Manderlys. His weight was the least of his problems.

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But Sam did try; he failed miserably at living up to his father's expectations, but his POV chapters show that he was aware of the social role he had to fill.

And even by Westerosi standards of trying to enforce masculinity his father's actions, not only towards Sam, showcase a physical and emotional sadist.

Randyll a sadist he's a arsehole but I don't think he takes pleasure in it he's just a very conservative lord.

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I understand that Randyll was embarrassed by Sam and just want him gone (dead or at the Wall), but using the legacy card was too simple. Sam could have renounce to his claim to be the Lord of Horn Hill (and I don't think anybody doubt Sam will do it if his father threating to do so), just like Duncan Targaryen or Aemon Targaryen did. (Aemon rejected the crown and then went to the NW to avoid being used in any future plot against Aegon V, but first, the crown was offered to him, and he was a maester).



Sometimes in the series, people (and I mean characthers) act like there are some unbreakeable rules in the matters of succesion. And sometimes they realize that power resides where people decide, and know that, if you have money, swords and contacts, you can put aside the rules of succesion. (Renly's crown, Tywin deny to name Tyron his heir). Who was going to tell Randyll that his second son couldn't inherit him? Mace Tyrell? Robert Baratheon? C'mon.


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Sam did try but his cuntface father tortured him into a state where it was nearly impossible for him to excel at anything.



Randyll was only partly justified in thinking that it would have been a poor choice to have inherit, but that does not give him a pass for threatening to murder Sam and exiling him to the Wall, which was also most likely meant as a death sentence. There were other ways he could have passed Sam's inheritance to Dickon but the cunt was too proud to have him be a maester, something freakin' Targaryen princes and other noble borns have done for centuries. Also, I still find it messed up that Randyll is seen as "right' for not wanting Sam as his heir since it was Randyll's fault that Samwell turned out so damaged in the first place.


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Sam did try but his cuntface father tortured him into a state where it was nearly impossible for him to excel at anything.

Randyll was only partly justified in thinking that it would have been a poor choice to have inherit, but that does not give him a pass for threatening to murder Sam and exiling him to the Wall, which was also most likely meant as a death sentence. There were other ways he could have passed Sam's inheritance to Dickon but the cunt was too proud to have him be a maester, something freakin' Targaryen princes and other noble borns have done for centuries. Also, I still find it messed up that Randyll is seen as "right' for not wanting Sam as his heir since it was Randyll's fault that Samwell turned out so damaged in the first place.

Ehhhh, some people are what they are. Did lord tarly make it worse? Maybe, even likely. Dickon is apparently everything he ever wanted, if he was the reason that Sam is a craven then logically dickon would be too

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Ehhhh, some people are what they are. Did lord tarly make it worse? Maybe, even likely. Dickon is apparently everything he ever wanted, if he was the reason that Sam is a craven then logically dickon would be too

There was probably some hesitation to do things when Sam was a child but had Randyll acted like a parent and not a gaoler, he probably would not have turned out as mentally damaged as he is.

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Ehhhh, some people are what they are. Did lord tarly make it worse? Maybe, even likely. Dickon is apparently everything he ever wanted, if he was the reason that Sam is a craven then logically dickon would be too

Not neccesarily, Sam may have been cowardly due to birth or something that happened in childhood. This may have been something he could overcome in the right circumstances. He would never be able to flourish with dickhead dad doing psycho shit.

Where Sam's brother may just be naturally more "tough". Tough enough not to trigger red flags for Randy to get psycho on him.

I'm not saying that's how it was but it could have been like that, just because one kid is different doesn't mean the other kid wasn't abused severely

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