Prince Rhaegar, hero, romantic or villian?

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

We don't know a whole lot about Rhaegar. We actually don't know for sure if he loved Lyanna or if he simply used her because his own wife could no longer bear children. (Or so its said).

No one seems to speak ill of him, but I find this odd. (Aside from Robert Baratheon everyone seems to think of Rhaegar as some kind of prodigy).

Why do so many think of him as a good person? We assume Lyanna loved him and wanted to be with him. I have a problem with this assumption. The famous honor of the family Stark. Knowing how Lyanna (assuming she is indeed the KotLT), acted at Harrenhal when someone weaker was being bullied, does such a person risk the honor of her family to go running off with the Prince of the Realm while bethrothed to someone else?

What of Rhaegar at the Tourney and his behavior? Does someone who truly loves a woman put her reputation in a state of shambles in front of so many people that the scandle had no chance of being quashed or made into some kind of jest on Rhaegar's side?. It was clearly meant to provoke and I would like to know if his intent all along was to start this war, not because he loved Lyanna, but because he seemed to have run out of plausible ideas to depose his father from the Iron Throne. Was what happened with Lyanna Stark a huge distraction to split the realm and distract everyone from his true intent? If so, what were the reasons for his actions?

Why would he leave only one King's Guard at the Red Keep to protect his own wife and children? Everyone seems to fall for the idea that Rhaegar and Lyanna's love for each other guided their actions and blinded them to all consequence. I don't think that Lyanna could love a man who's father murdered her own and her brother in such horrific fashion. Who would want to marry a man who's father was such a monster?

None of this makes sense to me. Lyanna had honor, a Stark's honor. If she was indeed raped by Rhaegar as many times as Robert seemed to think, it could easily have contributed to her death.

We do not know the name of the woman on Rhaegar's lips as he lay dying at the Trident. It was not necessarily Lyanna. While Lyanna had confessed to Eddard her reservations about Robert staying true to her after their marriage, there was no indication that she was going to abandon her promise to marry him.

I truly believe she wanted Robert's feelings spared as well as Jon protected from Robert's wrath. I think she also knew a darker secret and that is the one that has haunted Eddard all these years.

Your thoughts?

[Lord Damian]

I think initially she was taken against her will, then, he wore her down with music and charm and probably spilled his guts out as to why he is which was at first to fulfill a prophecy but we are told he loved her, so it was both. I think she was kept in the dark about what happened to her father and brother as that should have been a deal breaker, otherwise Lyann was a pretty cold fish. Kinda like Sansa perhaps.

[The Santa of House Claus]

I think she certainly had a crush on him, given that he was suppose to be so hansom and charming. But I have no doubt he kidnapped her to fulfill a prophecy. Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy.

I always view Rhaegar as a villain simple because regardless of his reasons, his reckless actions caused the war. He kidnaps/runs off with the daughter of one Lord Paramount, who is betrothed to another Lord Paramount. He had to know his actions would cause problems. And if he did not foresee the backfire of his actions, then he is a complete moron.

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

I think you are giving Starks in general too much credit. Brandon didn't have the same type of honor Robb showed when he de-flowered Lady Dustin and then didn't marry her later. The main traits I perceived Lyanna to have based off the little we know of her were stubborn, independent, and active. I don't believe honor played as large of an influence with all Starks as it did with Ned. I think they had more of an honorbound culture in Winterfell than the average house, but I doubt they all had Ned's nearly unflinching adherence to his code of honor.

Also, do we find out if Lyanna knew what happened to her father and brother? Her being with Rhaegar is what catalyzed their deaths, so do we even know if she knew?

[Lord Damian]

I think you are giving Starks in general too much credit. Brandon didn't have the same type of honor Robb showed when he de-flowered Lady Dustin and then didn't marry her later. The main traits I perceived Lyanna to have based off the little we know of her were stubborn, independent, and active. I don't believe honor played as large of an influence with all Starks as it did with Ned. I think they had more of an honorbound culture in Winterfell than the average house, but I doubt they all had Ned's nearly unflinching adherence to his code of honor.

Also, do we find out if Lyanna knew what happened to her father and brother? Her being with Rhaegar is what catalyzed their deaths, so do we even know if she knew?

I doubt it, why would Rheagar, who took her into seclusion to seal the deal, give her upsetting news that may jeopardize the health of their unborn/unhatched baby?

[Boarsbane]

I don't think he was a hero or a villain. He was a delusional, irresponsible waste of potential. All we hear about is how great he was, except from Robert, but what did he actually do? He either eloped with or kidnapped the daughter of a LP, who was betrothed to another LP, while he was married to the daughter of another LP, and to make matters even worse the first 2 LP's had close ties to another 2 LP's. Now regardless of what his fans will tell you this set the stage for Robert's Rebellion, others didn't help but Aerys and Brandon don't find themselves in that situation without Rhaegar's actions. Also how does he figure leaving Aerys to deal with the potential mess his actions could cause is a good idea? He should know better than most how bad his father has gotten.

Now after the war his actions helped start kicks off, does he rush to KL to lead the Targaryen forces? No, he leaves is insane father alone to coordinate the war effort and shows up near the end after the rebels have won multiple victories and the war has been raging for around a year. Not that I think he would of made much a difference other than being a figurehead for the loyalist troops to rally around similar to Robert.

He did have potential to be a good king, and potential to be a bad one as well. People seemed to think he would of been a good king, but none of them really elaborate why. I think maybe some of them let their feelings about him cloud their judgement. His actual actions don't suggest to me that he'd of been the great King people seemed to believe.

[Alex Storm]

If Jon is AA then I'd view him as a hero. Otherwise he's a villian for starting RR

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I think you are giving Starks in general too much credit. Brandon didn't have the same type of honor Robb showed when he de-flowered Lady Dustin and then didn't marry her later. The main traits I perceived Lyanna to have based off the little we know of her were stubborn, independent, and active. I don't believe honor played as large of an influence with all Starks as it did with Ned. I think they had more of an honorbound culture in Winterfell than the average house, but I doubt they all had Ned's nearly unflinching adherence to his code of honor.

Also, do we find out if Lyanna knew what happened to her father and brother? Her being with Rhaegar is what catalyzed their deaths, so do we even know if she knew?

When Robert rails against Lyanna being in the crypts at Winterfell, Ned reminds him he was with her when she died and she wanted to come home to be with Brandon and her father, so, yes she knew and she knew Rhaegar was dead as well.

Also, it was Brandon who slept with Lady Dustin not Robb. King Robb slept with Jeyne Westerling and then felt honor bound to marry her.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I don't think he was a hero or a villain. He was a delusional, irresponsible waste of potential. All we hear about is how great he was, except from Robert, but what did he actually do? He either eloped with or kidnapped the daughter of a LP, who was betrothed to another LP, while he was married to the daughter of another LP, and to make matters even worse the first 2 LP's had close ties to another 2 LP's. Now regardless of what his fans will tell you this set the stage for Robert's Rebellion, others didn't help but Aerys and Brandon don't find themselves in that situation without Rhaegar's actions. Also how does he figure leaving Aerys to deal with the potential mess his actions could cause is a good idea? He should know better than most how bad his father has gotten.

Now after the war his actions helped start kicks off, does he rush to KL to lead the Targaryen forces? No, he leaves is insane father alone to coordinate the war effort and shows up near the end after the rebels have won multiple victories and the war has been raging for around a year. Not that I think he would of made much a difference other than being a figurehead for the loyalist troops to rally around similar to Robert.

He did have potential to be a good king, and potential to be a bad one as well. People seemed to think he would of been a good king, but none of them really elaborate why. I think maybe some of them let their feelings about him cloud their judgement. His actual actions don't suggest to me that he'd of been the great King people seemed to believe.

I think his death made him larger than life and much more than he ever was or would have been.

[Veloknight]

I have a crackpot theory that the 'abduction' was actually a flight from some catspaws of Varys or Aerys, and that Lyanna may have either saved or been saved by Rhaegar. After all, why would Aerys, who thinks that the KoTLT is out to get him and that his son has convened the Harrenhal tourney to plot his - ah - retirement - send only Rhaegar to investigate? It's not a hard stretch to imagine Rhaegar might have found out, but been tailed.

I actually really like questions like this one, but lean in the opposite direction of most people. The narrative we're given about what happened at Harrenhal seems inconsistent with the narrative about the people at Harrenhal. That means either the people were different, or the events were different. Given the amount of weight given to Rhaegar's character and abilities, as well as Eddard's deep sense of remorse over the past, I tend to think Harrenhal and the post-Harrenhal 'abduction' is what's off, not the character of Rhaegar or Lyanna.

[The Wolves]

We don't know enough about him to label him any if thoes things. But he doesn't seem like he's a bad person he just made mistakes that his family shouldn't have had to suffer for.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

We don't know enough about him to label him any if thoes things. But he doesn't seem like he's a bad person he just made mistakes that his family shouldn't have had to suffer for.

It wasn't his family alone that suffered. It was the whole of the 7 Kingdoms. He had some singlemindedness of purpose that made him as blind as an eyeless man. Aemon saw more with his sightless eyes than Rhaegar with all of his youth and prowess. Perhaps the people who surrounded him refused to speak the truth to him because they were so blinded by his light. Something is wrong. Even Viserys and Daenarys have nothing bad to say about the woman he loved. If it was Lyanna, I'm very sure they would have had plenty to say.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Not enough evidence to label him anything but an idiot. If he was really convinced about this world shaping prophecy, why did he not thinks the Starks would be too? There is no reason so far to take a girl off the road and make off with her.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Well, he was probably a cuckoo who ruined his dynasty based on a crazy prophecy to save humanity. On the other hand, there is a horde of magical demons gathering to destroy the whole world, and the son the prophecy told him to make is there to fight them. So I guess he's redeemed.

[UtherSnow]

Not enough evidence to label him anything but an idiot. If he was really convinced about this world shaping prophecy, why did he not thinks the Starks would be too? There is no reason so far to take a girl off the road and make off with her.

This.... unless something else is going on. (Lost rubies.)

[Creep Anarchist]

Rhaegar is definitely a villian.

[The Marquis de Leech]

A repost of my Rhaegar Targaryen had Aspergers Syndrome theory:

- He has a special subject that he pursues to the extent of obsession, namely prophecies, and to a lesser extent harp music. There's even a flashback scene in the House of the Undying where he's with his (own actually existing) son, and he's still going on about "there needs to be one more".

- It explains him running off with Lyanna, and not quite understanding why it would upset people, even though he is highly intelligent.

- As a child, he showed no interest in other children, and spent all his time with books. Our other bookworm, Sam Tarly, is far more social by comparison.

- As a child, he impresses the Maesters with his knowledge of arcane trivia. One imagines his vocabulary being pretty extensive.

- Rhaegar remains clearly introverted as an adult, coming across as more comfortable with his harp than anything.

- He doesn't seem to notice that Jon Connington has a homosexual crush on him.

- (This is stretching things) Ned doesn't think Rhaegar would visit brothels. Perhaps that sort of social setting made Aspie!Rhaegar uncomfortable?

- The apparent lack of social awkwardness can be explained by everyone being too busy admiring his inhuman beauty, or thinking how wonderful he is, to notice him doing anything odd. Especially given that he's Targaryen: there's a social expectation that Targaryens are supposed to do odd things.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I think that Rhaegar suffered from what most Princes suffer from, an ego and the thought that he could pretty much do what ever he wanted. Not that that made him a bad guy onthe whole, but it clouded his judgement.

Add to that, the fact that he was obsessed with the TPtwP prophecy and his Three Heads of the Dragon, it lead him to make decisions that were not in the best interest of himself and the realm.

Now you have Lyanna and her "Wolf's Blood", meaning she was prone to making choices based on emotion rather than logic. She was @ 16 and in love and was fearing marrying a man she didn't love and she knew wouldn't be true to her. So she also made a rash decision to run away with Rhaegar.

Now if this happened to most anyone else, things could have been worked out. Rhaegar could have smoothed things over with Robert and the Starks, and even if they couldn't Lyanna may have returned and Rhaegar forced to apologize or something.

But the country was a powder keg of revolt, the Mad King was already on the verge of going one step to far anyway, the High Lords were looking for an excuse to remove him from the Throne and were already trying to work together to make that happen covertly. His own son was in the process of trying to remove him.

No one could have guessed that hot headed Brandon would demand Rhaegar's head in the Capitol or guessed that Aerys would then execute Brandon and his father, or call for Ned and Robert's heads thus starting the revolt.

Rhaegar felt he had to run off with Lyanna because his father would not allow him to either make a pact with the Starks and/ or have two wives (it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission), so he thought this was the easiest way.

In truth he should have called the grand council and removed Aerys first and then married Lyanna. Make that change to the story and Rhaegar is a hero.

[The Wolves]

It wasn't his family alone that suffered. It was the whole of the 7 Kingdoms.He had some singlemindedness of purpose that made him as blind as an eyeless man. Aemon saw more with his sightless eyes than Rhaegar with all of his youth and prowess. Perhaps the people who surrounded him refused to speak the truth to him because they were so blinded by his light. Something is wrong. Even Viserys and Daenarys have nothing bad to say about the woman he loved. If it was Lyanna, I'm very sure they would have had plenty to say.

To the bolded that's not his fault or his family's fault that the realm suffered. Arryn, Ned, Robert, Hoster, and Tywin all had major roles in the war, it was Arryn who raised his banners bringing war for two men, it was Hoster who made war on his own land to fight for a rebels cause to get political alliances for his family, it was Robert and Ned who raised their banners to fight for their lives and it was Tywin whoes men raped and murdered men, women, and children. The rebels made Westeros suffer as much as any Targaryen did and they did it with TWot5Ks.

Rhaegar taking Lyanna shouldn't have had the effect of war erupting.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Well, he was probably a cuckoo who ruined his dynasty based on a crazy prophecy to save humanity. On the other hand, there is a horde of magical demons gathering to destroy the whole world, and the son the prophecy told him to make is there to fight them. So I guess he's redeemed.

No one has been redeemed as yet.