Confirmed, HBO show will spoil the ending of series

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Have you guys seen this new interview of Martin saying he will not write any episodes for season 6? He also refused to say it was a done deal that season 6 would air before book 6 comes out. He says he's written a lot of pages and has more to write.

Also some surprising comments about the show having some characters (secondary) that are more interesting than his book version.

[shadow282]

I'm sure Mr. Martin has a will. And I'm sure he has a plan for what happens if he dies, especially as his estate has grown. But I don't think his will is any of my business. He's old, but can still travel, seems fine in public appearances and perfect strangers ask him what his plans are if he dies, that's not right. I don't think anyone is entitled to anything from at this point. I really hope we get to read these last two books and I expect we will.

To your example I think if I was 65 and had this great lesson plan that I had been delivering year in and year out that could be a conversation I could have with my boss. But it should be that, a conversation. (And I agree that I think it reasonable for his publisher to have the conversation because I assume they have a contract with him) If some random 6th grader that I have never met, walks up to me and tells me he won't be in my class for another five years and he asks me what happens if I die before he gets to my class. If I'm in perfectly fine health, yeah, I would take that as an insult.

I don't think anyone is entitled to know what that plan is, no. But saying "Yes, I have a plan" is not an unreasonable thing to ask for. I would never tell anyone what was in my will, but if someone asked if I had one I certainly wouldn't act like it's some huge insult. I'd simply say I had one, and I don't know anybody who would refuse to answer that question.

[Polo]

I knew that Osha's performance in the show influenced the future writings, and that he preferred (to an extent) the show Shae, but I didn't know there were other characters that did that as well. Too bad the interviewer didn't try and press him for some names.

I guess since he's not writing S6, he's likely not going to be writing for the final season either. And it does seem as though he is quite disillusioned by the idea that the show WILL tell the ending before his books do. I still don't think he's truly realized the impact on himself that having someone else finish his books ending for him in another medium will have. Making excuses like "well, we have a rough outline for Season 6" is strange considering he knows he's not writing for that season and production will CERTAINLY commence this summer.

Whether he likes it or not, Book 7 wont be out while they're shooting Season 7 (summer 2016), and likely not until after the series finale (June 2017). Even if they split the last season into two-parts (7ep in 2017, 7ep in 2018), I dont think A Dream Of Spring will be released.

[Elessar]

Ok, so I admit that I spoke in anger on page 9. But I stand by everything i said, minus or two of the "fuck these guys" but not all of them :)

It's frustrating for those of us who've been with the books since they were brand new and no one had even heard of the Starks or the Lannisters. I was working in the industry (if B&N book slave counts as "the industry") and the series didn't really start to take off until ASoS, that was the first one I remember there being any kind of pre-release clamor for, though in the years prior I did everything I could to put as many copies of GoT into as many hands as I could, I suggestive sold the shit out of that book!

Sure, it's partially George's fault, but really, knowing his glacial pace and knowing how much material they had to work with is anyone else surprised how fast they went through it?

I definitely stick by my thought that it's odd that they would alter and change almost every major event, almost every major character but that somehow they feel beholden to stick to "George's ending". It's like they're getting a bit of perverse glee out of saying "we know you impatient fucks can't wait for George to do the real ending, so guess what, we'll spoil it for you!" - yeah, the guy who wrote Wolverine is going to get to spoil the ending to the best piece of fantasy lit of the last 50 years.

How the hell can you NOT be the least bit upset?

But hey, at least we'll get to watch some drama school level acting to match the shit writing whenever Dany does what she does.

The production values are top notch, much of the casting is great, much of the acting is great, but the writing is consistently awful and several of the "actors" would not be out of place on daytime soap dramas.

Anyway, yeah, I'll still watch it.

Also someone asked what my favorite tv shows are.

Deadwood, Rome, The Wire, Fargo (S1), are a few. I even rank GoT up there, if only for the visual imagery. I don't watch much TV anymore though, running a business and being a husband and father are more important.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Ok, so I admit that I spoke in anger on page 9. But I stand by everything i said, minus or two of the "fuck these guys" but not all of them :)

It's frustrating for those of us who've been with the books since they were brand new and no one had even heard of the Starks or the Lannisters. I was working in the industry (if B&N book slave counts as "the industry") and the series didn't really start to take off until ASoS, that was the first one I remember there being any kind of pre-release clamor for, though in the years prior I did everything I could to put as many copies of GoT into as many hands as I could, I suggestive sold the shit out of that book!

Sure, it's partially George's fault , but really, knowing his glacial pace and knowing how much material they had to work with is anyone else surprised how fast they went through it?

I definitely stick by my thought that it's odd that they would alter and change almost every major event, almost every major character but that somehow they feel beholden to stick to "George's ending". It's like they're getting a bit of perverse glee out of saying "we know you impatient fucks can't wait for George to do the real ending, so guess what, we'll spoil it for you!" - yeah, the guy who wrote Wolverine is going to get to spoil the ending to the best piece of fantasy lit of the last 50 years.

How the hell can you NOT be the least bit upset?

But hey, at least we'll get to watch some drama school level acting to match the shit writing whenever Dany does what she does.

The production values are top notch, much of the casting is great, much of the acting is great, but the writing is consistently awful and several of the "actors" would not be out of place on daytime soap dramas.

Anyway, yeah, I'll still watch it.

Also someone asked what my favorite tv shows are.

Deadwood, Rome, The Wire, Fargo (S1), are a few. I even rank GoT up there, if only for the visual imagery. I don't watch much TV anymore though, running a business and being a husband and father are more important.

"Partially" George's fault? I think you meant "completely"

As for the ending, the show is just taking a different road to get to the same place.

[Elessar]

Cherry picking is a fun way to pass the time.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Cherry picking is a fun way to pass the time.

Eh, I wouldn't know, but I'll take your word for it

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Whether he likes it or not, Book 7 wont be out while they're shooting Season 7 (summer 2016), and likely not until after the series finale (June 2017). Even if they split the last season into two-parts (7ep in 2017, 7ep in 2018), I dont think A Dream Of Spring will be released.

I found the interview very interesting and my respect for him being able to say the show had improved on some of his characters has grown immensely. Of course book 7 won't be out before the season but it's still a toss up whether book 6 will be out before that season, too.

I definitely stick by my thought that it's odd that they would alter and change almost every major event, almost every major character but that somehow they feel beholden to stick to "George's ending". It's like they're getting a bit of perverse glee out of saying "we know you impatient fucks can't wait for George to do the real ending, so guess what, we'll spoil it for you!" - yeah, the guy who wrote Wolverine is going to get to spoil the ending to the best piece of fantasy lit of the last 50 years.

How the hell can you NOT be the least bit upset?

They are not changing almost every character or event but yes, there have been questionable changes made. Still, I don't think it's fair to say it's purposefully changing things then remaining truthful to the ending just to piss people off. Of course it's annoying to have the show spoil the books when the books will be more detailed and rewarding but you are right to use the word "impatient". I want resolution. I also want the books. I've resolved myself that resolution will come before the books and honestly, I'd be more upset if there was no resolution.

I fully agree the show will never be as rich as the books - it can't be. Not for this type of story. But I do feel they are holding their own and even Martin thinks they're getting a lot of things right, so there's that. But I'm sure it will never be good enough for some readers.

[Lord Damian]

Well, the show is certainly giving many clues as to the ending for certain characters. The biggest buzz this year is clearly Sansa in that her parallel in the books is, well, we readers know, or not.

[Mark Antony]

I don't mind it distorting the history. The script was awful though. The only well written scene was the one between O'Toole and Pitt. The dialogue in the movie was just laughable.

Pretty much I like the movie but gods dat dialogue :ack:

[TaenaOfMyr]

It's frustrating for those of us who've been with the books since they were brand new and no one had even heard of the Starks or the Lannisters. I was working in the industry (if B&N book slave counts as "the industry") and the series didn't really start to take off until ASoS, that was the first one I remember there being any kind of pre-release clamor for, though in the years prior I did everything I could to put as many copies of GoT into as many hands as I could, I suggestive sold the shit out of that book!

Sure, it's partially George's fault, but really, knowing his glacial pace and knowing how much material they had to work with is anyone else surprised how fast they went through it?

It is 100% GRRM's fault. He knew what he was getting into when he sold the rights to the show. He made the disastrous decision to structure A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons in the fashion that he did which is probably the main reason why we are in this situation. The manner in which D&D have paced the show is perfectly fine. AFFC and ADWD are loaded with filler, filler which was never going to make it to the show unless they wanted to blow up everything and soil what is HBO's most successful show ever. GRRM had years and years and years to write at a faster pace and keep himself a sufficient point ahead of the TV show. He had the opportunity to write AFFC and ADWD in a manner that they would be exciting and interesting, enough to support more seasons of the show than we are getting. GRRM chose to spend an immense amount of time on side projects, knowing full well that by doing so he was putting himself in a position where the TV show would overtake him. GRRM chose to spend time at conventions and on other trips and not spend anytime writing while doing so. He's within his rights to do that. It's his life and he can enjoy his success. But he has no right to complain because he chose that over keeping himself staying ahead of the show. Be mad all you want; in a perfect world I'd want to read the book ending before seeing it on TV as well. But we only have one person to blame for that, GRRM. No matter how much anger you want to put in the wrong direction isn't going to change that.

[ragnarok635]

Ok, so I admit that I spoke in anger on page 9. But I stand by everything i said, minus or two of the "fuck these guys" but not all of them :)

It's frustrating for those of us who've been with the books since they were brand new and no one had even heard of the Starks or the Lannisters. I was working in the industry (if B&N book slave counts as "the industry") and the series didn't really start to take off until ASoS, that was the first one I remember there being any kind of pre-release clamor for, though in the years prior I did everything I could to put as many copies of GoT into as many hands as I could, I suggestive sold the shit out of that book!

Sure, it's partially George's fault, but really, knowing his glacial pace and knowing how much material they had to work with is anyone else surprised how fast they went through it?

I definitely stick by my thought that it's odd that they would alter and change almost every major event, almost every major character but that somehow they feel beholden to stick to "George's ending". It's like they're getting a bit of perverse glee out of saying "we know you impatient fucks can't wait for George to do the real ending, so guess what, we'll spoil it for you!" - yeah, the guy who wrote Wolverine is going to get to spoil the ending to the best piece of fantasy lit of the last 50 years.

How the hell can you NOT be the least bit upset?

But hey, at least we'll get to watch some drama school level acting to match the shit writing whenever Dany does what she does.

The production values are top notch, much of the casting is great, much of the acting is great, but the writing is consistently awful and several of the "actors" would not be out of place on daytime soap dramas.

Anyway, yeah, I'll still watch it.

Also someone asked what my favorite tv shows are.

Deadwood, Rome, The Wire, Fargo (S1), are a few. I even rank GoT up there, if only for the visual imagery. I don't watch much TV anymore though, running a business and being a husband and father are more important.

You know, I have never read the books and based on comments like this I don't plan to because reading the books seems to suck enjoyment out of watching the show.

[Konradsmith]

Pretty much I like the movie but gods dat dialogue :ack:

"You sack of wine!"

[roxWolfox]

You know, I have never read the books and based on comments like this I don't plan to because reading the books seems to suck enjoyment out of watching the show.

There are many viewers who have enjoyed the books (and read them because of the show), and just as many book readers who watch the show, enjoying it for what it is. There will always be extremists. Don't let their views mar your experiences. :cheers:

[Squab]

Ok, so I admit that I spoke in anger on page 9. But I stand by everything i said, minus or two of the "fuck these guys" but not all of them :)

It's frustrating for those of us who've been with the books since they were brand new and no one had even heard of the Starks or the Lannisters. I was working in the industry (if B&N book slave counts as "the industry") and the series didn't really start to take off until ASoS, that was the first one I remember there being any kind of pre-release clamor for, though in the years prior I did everything I could to put as many copies of GoT into as many hands as I could, I suggestive sold the shit out of that book!

Sure, it's partially George's fault, but really, knowing his glacial pace and knowing how much material they had to work with is anyone else surprised how fast they went through it?

I definitely stick by my thought that it's odd that they would alter and change almost every major event, almost every major character but that somehow they feel beholden to stick to "George's ending". It's like they're getting a bit of perverse glee out of saying "we know you impatient fucks can't wait for George to do the real ending, so guess what, we'll spoil it for you!" - yeah, the guy who wrote Wolverine is going to get to spoil the ending to the best piece of fantasy lit of the last 50 years.

How the hell can you NOT be the least bit upset?

But hey, at least we'll get to watch some drama school level acting to match the shit writing whenever Dany does what she does.

The production values are top notch, much of the casting is great, much of the acting is great, but the writing is consistently awful and several of the "actors" would not be out of place on daytime soap dramas.

Anyway, yeah, I'll still watch it.

Also someone asked what my favorite tv shows are.

Deadwood, Rome, The Wire, Fargo (S1), are a few. I even rank GoT up there, if only for the visual imagery. I don't watch much TV anymore though, running a business and being a husband and father are more important.

You still seem quite angry. Give it a day or 5 and you can come to terms with the show becoming canon.

Also, which guys is it you want to sleep with? Apparently less than you did on page 9 but still a bit?

Many of the people he gained just before asos, as well as others from before, were lost during the wait for affc and then even more again after that last note in affc said adwd would be a year which was apparently in monkey years and took many more. The waiting and his deadlines have become a sad sad joke. Im just glad someone will finish it.

[Arakan]

Yeah!

Imagine DB&DW having their plots for seasons 5 to last summarily sketched in a 15 lines note on whatever web site you want. That is what GRRM must feel right now.

I'm always saying an author should always take all the time he needs to write his books. But there he screwed big.

At least those topics can be discussed in the TV forum. Of course GRRM can do whatever he wants. But especially for longtime fans of the book series (I belong to the 2nd generation, reading the series for the first time exactly 12 years ago), this is very disappointing. At least I feel so. This is absolutely not the fault of the HBO who are just doing their job.

Anyway, I will watch the TV series (actually didnt do so until now), get closure and will be fine. ASOIAF as book series is formally finished for me as of now. Whether TWOW gets published in 2016 or 2017, I honesty don't care anymore.

But it's ok, supply and demand. So from my pov there is absolutely no anger or anything like that. I am just not interested in any future books anymore.

[BalerionTheCat]

The 7 year deal was known for some time. And it was said before that HBO don't usually let shows run for more than 9 years. Additional time for ADoS would not have changed things. And during all this, GRRM was traveling and doing millions other things. Don't say it is not 100% his.

GRRM again confirmed he sucks at planing and deadlines. But I wonder why no one warned him better. His book editor, particularly. He is the greatest loser in this game. What will be the hype of new books when the show will have watered down the story? To know the fate of secondary characters? To know who is a Targaryen bastard?

[Arakan]

The 7 year deal was known for some time. And it was said before that HBO don't usually let shows run for more than 9 years. Additional time for ADoS would not have changed things. And during all this, GRRM was traveling and doing millions other things. Don't say it is not 100% his.

GRRM again confirmed he sucks at planing and deadlines. But I wonder why no one warned him better. His book editor, particularly. He is the greatest loser in this game. What will be the hype of new books when the show will have watered down the story? To know the fate of secondary characters? To know who is a Targaryen bastard?

The HBO deal was announced January 2007 IIRC. From this moment on, time was ticking. Actually if GRRM had wanted to finish before the TV series, planning would have been quite straightforward. And he got some 3 extra years as well as the series only started to air in 2011. could easily have been in late 2008 or 2009.

But anyway, I am quite sure that the TV series will define the Mainstream legacy of ASOIAF, similar to James Bond or the Godfather.

When I think of those two, I think of Sean Connery, Al Pacino, Marlo Brando and not primarily of Ian Fleming or Mario Puzo.

[BalerionTheCat]

The HBO deal was announced January 2007 IIRC. From this moment on, time was ticking. Actually if GRRM had wanted to finish before the TV series, planning would have been quite straightforward. And he got some 3 extra years as well as the series only started to air in 2011. could easily have been in late 2008 or 2009.

But anyway, I am quite sure that the TV series will define the Mainstream legacy of ASOIAF, similar to James Bond or the Godfather.

When I think of those two, I think of Sean Connery, Al Pacino, Marlo Brando and not primarily of Ian Fleming or Mario Puzo.

Personally, I will continue to wait patiently for the books. Hoping it will be the best ever fantasy I ever read. With Tolkien, but it is a much different writing. And I disagree with those who say, books 4 & 5 are filler and without interest. On the contrary. They are less battle and more people development. And are better for that. Sorry if it is not HBO and DW&DB standard.

I only hope we will be able to continue to speculate wildly in the books-only forum, about fantastic endings. But I'm afraid there will be always someone, arguing it is unlikely, because the show was not like that. I'm afraid a lot of the book-only forum creativity will die with the show spoiling the story.

[Arakan]

The TV show will not spoil the story, the TV show will finish the story. And likely 4/5 years before the story will be finished in written form.

I really think it's time to stop use the word "spoiling" as it clearly has a normative connotation.