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Confirmed, HBO show will spoil the ending of series


Dragon Seed

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You know, I have never read the books and based on comments like this I don't plan to because reading the books seems to suck enjoyment out of watching the show.

They only do that if you are unable to see them as different entities.

I, for one, have no problem seeing them separately, nor do I feel the need to compulsively compare them at every opportunity. I also can judge each without reference to the other...judging the show on how well it works as a show, etc.

I also don't think the books are better than the show. "More detail" doesn't automatically mean "better".

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Personally, I will continue to wait patiently for the books. Hoping it will be the best ever fantasy I ever read. With Tolkien, but it is a much different writing. And I disagree with those who say, books 4 & 5 are filler and without interest. On the contrary. They are less battle and more people development. And are better for that. Sorry if it is not HBO and DW&DB standard.

I only hope we will be able to continue to speculate wildly in the books-only forum, about fantastic endings. But I'm afraid there will be always someone, arguing it is unlikely, because the show was not like that. I'm afraid a lot of the book-only forum creativity will die with the show spoiling the story.

Re the last two books: Some of the character development was for new characters (and some soon died), that felt like i couldve skipped those bits and been none the wiser. I am not sure what you mean by "filler", do you mean milking the cow for all its worth while its laying golden eggs? Some chapters and povs felt superfluous.

(Cows lay eggs where I'm from)

And i think the tv series will lay the egg in its finale that causes the book milk to run dry. HBO is pretty good at milking so might extend for a couple more seasons but will ultimately finish before grrm does. If they are really any good, they will talk to grrm before the book sales fall about dunk and egg, otherwise he might be protective about selling the rights to that too.

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At least those topics can be discussed in the TV forum. Of course GRRM can do whatever he wants. But especially for longtime fans of the book series (I belong to the 2nd generation, reading the series for the first time exactly 12 years ago), this is very disappointing. At least I feel so. This is absolutely not the fault of the HBO who are just doing their job.

Anyway, I will watch the TV series (actually didnt do so until now), get closure and will be fine. ASOIAF as book series is formally finished for me as of now. Whether TWOW gets published in 2016 or 2017, I honesty don't care anymore.

But it's ok, supply and demand. So from my pov there is absolutely no anger or anything like that. I am just not interested in any future books anymore.

Really? Wow. You won't read WOW when it cames out?

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You know, I have never read the books and based on comments like this I don't plan to because reading the books seems to suck enjoyment out of watching the show.

Please don't let angry comments deter you from reading the books. They tell the story you are enjoying on the show in greater depth and detail and are equally, if not more, enjoyable. The show is the show and the books are the books and they are both very entertaining. Read the books and I'm sure you'll agree :cool4:

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Ok, so I admit that I spoke in anger on page 9. But I stand by everything i said, minus or two of the "fuck these guys" but not all of them :)

It's frustrating for those of us who've been with the books since they were brand new and no one had even heard of the Starks or the Lannisters. I was working in the industry (if B&N book slave counts as "the industry") and the series didn't really start to take off until ASoS, that was the first one I remember there being any kind of pre-release clamor for, though in the years prior I did everything I could to put as many copies of GoT into as many hands as I could, I suggestive sold the shit out of that book!

Sure, it's partially George's fault, but really, knowing his glacial pace and knowing how much material they had to work with is anyone else surprised how fast they went through it?

I definitely stick by my thought that it's odd that they would alter and change almost every major event, almost every major character but that somehow they feel beholden to stick to "George's ending". It's like they're getting a bit of perverse glee out of saying "we know you impatient fucks can't wait for George to do the real ending, so guess what, we'll spoil it for you!" - yeah, the guy who wrote Wolverine is going to get to spoil the ending to the best piece of fantasy lit of the last 50 years.

How the hell can you NOT be the least bit upset?

I am a little bit upset, yes. With the writer, who has only very recently embraced the concept of "I can't come out and play, I have a homework to finish first" (as opposed to: "who's passing up a free trip to Dubai?"). OTOH, I really don't find any reason to be angry at HBO for working. Fast? Let alone "surprisingly fast"? It's, rougly, one year - one book, that's how bestselling series' adaptations are usually done nowadays. And that's actually slower than ideal, because the actors are aging naturally, instead of slowing down their physiology in accordance with the series' internal calendar (it's OK for adults, but really conspicuous in kids).

The accusation that their intention of following the plotline is some sort of a dick move on the showrunners' part is bizarre.

Tolkien worked on lotr and the silmarillion for decades, too :-)

Mayhaps, but the readers weren't subjected to that. "The Fellowship" was published in 1955, ditto "The Two Towers", "The Return" the following year.

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Tolkien worked on lotr and the silmarillion for decades, too :-)

That's not my point though. GRRM will never come even close to Tolkien's legacy. And this HBO thing is just another reason why. Obviously this is just my opinion and everyone can feel free to see it differently.

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Really? Wow. You won't read WOW when it cames out?

Well this is how I feel right now. Of course never say never. But as of now I am just not interested anymore in the book series. One reason being that waiting another 5-10 when/if evth is finished, is just not worth the wait anymore. But that's just me.

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Different times. Different people.

Also, Tolkien is Tolkien. As Power is Power and Nothing is Nothing. I like GRRM but Tolkien is a whole higher different level.

Absolutely.

But fans are fans. Once I had quite an argument with someone on another board when this person said that ASOIAF is on a comparable level of "greatness" as classics like War and Peace. But as said: fans are fans ;).

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They only do that if you are unable to see them as different entities.

I, for one, have no problem seeing them separately, nor do I feel the need to compulsively compare them at every opportunity. I also can judge each without reference to the other...judging the show on how well it works as a show, etc.

I also don't think the books are better than the show. "More detail" doesn't automatically mean "better".

This is spot on! Most of the people who hate the show can praise the filler/pointless chapters in the last two books, but have literally cursed D&D for trying to trim some of GRRM's fat and correct timeline issues. For example, Brienne fighting the Hound. Maybe after 20 vested hours, the viewer would forget wtf this wench is doing wandering around, Gods know I would have forgot if I hadn't read "I'm looking for a maid of three and ten" for an entire book. (Just let her get caught by the BWB at the end of her 2nd chapter and end the madness!!)

I understand that some people find it completely fulfilling to read about "the only thing worth writing about, the human hear", but you have to move the plot, answer lingering questions, have unexpected reveals, and throw in some action on top of character depth to have a masterpiece like ASOS.

The show has done a great job! No sane person can expect HBO to go into the depths that ASOIAF has. It's not possible. GOT is one of the most popular shows of all time so D&D must be doing something right. If none of you have gone into the "Nitpick with no repercussion" thread in the show forum, I suggest you check it out Monday mornings while the shown is on. The complaints these people come up with are asinine!

7 Blessings to you all!

"Lord of Reason, protect us, for the forum is dark and full of terrors!"

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Tolkien worked on lotr and the silmarillion for decades, too :-)

But with the GRRM approach, we would have had to wait for seven years after The Two Towers, and then got hundreds of pages about Dol Amroth and some captain of the Haradrim, and then waited another six years before we found out what happened to Frodo and Sam.

Actually, I guess Sauron would have been kept on the back burner entirely, for lots and lots of pages about Rohan and Gondor politics.

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But with the GRRM approach, we would have had to wait for seven years after The Two Towers, and then got hundreds of pages about Dol Amroth and some captain of the Haradrim, and then waited another six years before we found out what happened to Frodo and Sam.

Actually, I guess Sauron would have been kept on the back burner entirely, for lots and lots of pages about Rohan and Gondor politics.

:rofl:

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But with the GRRM approach, we would have had to wait for seven years after The Two Towers, and then got hundreds of pages about Dol Amroth and some captain of the Haradrim, and then waited another six years before we found out what happened to Frodo and Sam.

Actually, I guess Sauron would have been kept on the back burner entirely, for lots and lots of pages about Rohan and Gondor politics.

And in the meantime, he would have written several other short stories and projects while anything with his name on it sells well, never mentioning frodo but hinting at pippens heritage as being questionable

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Don't forget the "World of Middle Earth" and a book of Numenorian/Gondorian cuisine in the waiting time between TTT and ROTK. For those who like it a bit more rustic, of course there would have been a Rohirim cooking book as well ;).

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There was a nice thread going on in General but it got locked, so I just will post here what I wanted to say with regard to "disappointment" because the Show will finish the story way before the books will do so...

I think it is absolutely understandable and justified that especially the long-term fans of the books (those who started reading sometime between 1996-2004, i.e. before AFFC has beeb published) are having a feeling of disappointment. This is NOT entitlement at all. Those have been the fans who played a large part in ASOIAF becoming the juggernaut it is today. I started the series in early 2003 (thanks to a recommendation on a German LOTR forum) and afterwards I myself recommended the series to many people. At least a dozen friends and working mates started themselves to buy and read the books (all 5 of them). And that's just me. I am quite sure there are countless similar stories out there. Back in 2003, ASOIAF was NOTHING in Germany.

So, I can fully understand if some people feel disappointed. But of course they shouldnt feel angry. First because ASOIAF is simply too unimportant to have such negative feelings. Second, because we got enjoyment out of the books, at least the first three (as in my case, AFFC was still ok, if you look at it as a compilation of short stories, ADWD was simply not good literature from a technical pov but thats just me).

It has been made clear over the last few years, that we should see the whole thing from a supply/demand pov. We are customers, GRRM is the supplier. Until 2011 he had a monopoly in the product ASOIAF. And thanks to HBO this has changed and we as customers can choose now the supplier to satisfy our demand. Until now I was a loyal customer to the supplier GRRM but as I am not satisfied anymore with this supplier I decided to switch to HBO.

So when you look at it under a rational pov, evth is fine. We as the demand side (Customers) can make our decision. A decision which wasnt possible for many years.

Btw this is the reason why monopolies in general suck ;).

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As for the ending, the show is just taking a different road to get to the same place.

I feel the definition of "same" is left to much interpretation. We've seen hugely different (my interpretation) things in past seasons, particularly with the House of the Undying. We will probably also miss Euron and his Ironborns and sorcerers. So I suppose the producers can go very far from the original material, and still call that the same. And the TV fans to concur. Of course we will know for sure if Jon, Daenerys, Arya and Tyrion will live or die. Sansa, Bran and a few others, maybe also. But for the why and the how, the show will yield, I believe, very little clues.

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So when you look at it under a rational pov, evth is fine. We as the demand side (Customers) can make our decision. A decision which wasnt possible for many years.

I agree with that. Personally, I'm fine with all the books, including the last two. I see the HBO show as a shallow interpretation of the books. A short lived entertainment, good to convince non readers to check the books. That's me, and I don't really care if others don't share my view.

But anyway, I am quite sure that the TV series will define the Mainstream legacy of ASOIAF, similar to James Bond or the Godfather.

But when you say that, it looks more like they bought their competitor's business and established a new monopoly.

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