sj4iy Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I'm sure DW&DB will say, until the end, until and after the last book is released, that their ending is the same. And the TV fan will agree. They will say the differences are minor. But those who put much value in the differences we have already witnessed will disagree. And I don't speak of removing characters, or putting Jaime in Dorne. I suppose most of those missing characters are unimportant, even UnCat. Because I don't know or have an idea of what GRRM intends with her. But I could be wrong. And I don't know either if Jaime has something important to do specifically in the Riverlands. No, I refer here to the prophecies, like the House of the Undying, and generally the Ice and Fire stuff, which seems to me rather downsized by DW&DB. Reducing GRRM story to a fight for the IT, with the Others in the background. BTW, I don't think Cersei prophecy is very important. Yes, I'm sure the end will be about the same. And maybe GRRM story is much simpler than I immagine, and much less fantastic. We'll see. If it is, then the show will not spoil much. But that is just me. Martin himself said all of the big events will be the same. That would obviously include the ending. And yeah, I think you are overcomplicating the basic story...there might be lots of characters, lots of places and lots of plot lines, but that doesn't mean that they are ALL important to the actual ending of the actual story. Also, the story itself has never been about 'who will win the IT?' The story has always been "Humanity always focuses on the unimportant things while ignoring the important ones"...so the whole POINT is that the show SHOULD put the Wall story in the background while focusing on the political stuff, because that's how GRRM wrote the story in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Swell Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Martin wrote himself into a wall and takes forever to get his shit out. I'm glad the show is just getting on with the story. I want to see how it all ends before I stop caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Martin himself said all of the big events will be the same.That would obviously include the ending.And yeah, I think you are overcomplicating the basic story...there might be lots of characters, lots of places and lots of plot lines, but that doesn't mean that they are ALL important to the actual ending of the actual story.Also, the story itself has never been about 'who will win the IT?' The story has always been "Humanity always focuses on the unimportant things while ignoring the important ones"...so the whole POINT is that the show SHOULD put the Wall story in the background while focusing on the political stuff, because that's how GRRM wrote the story in the first place. I never said that the multiplication of the characters was important ("most of those missing characters are unimportant, even UnCat"). And yes, the main idea is that the would-be-kings do their petty wars while the commoners are paying the price and the land go to ruin. Maybe HBO will put that clear. Maybe they will if they really use the AFFC material. We had Brienne and Pod and the Hound already. And what do we have of the state of the country? Except one man dying and another poor man and his daughter. And there are elements of fantasy in the books that I don't find in the show. Maybe they will lead to nothing in the end. I don't know. But for me it gives a different feeling between the books and the show. It's my Tolkien love there. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I never said that the multiplication of the characters was important ("most of those missing characters are unimportant, even UnCat"). And yes, the main idea is that the would-be-kings do their petty wars while the commoners are paying the price and the land go to ruin. Maybe HBO will put that clear. Maybe they will if they really use the AFFC material. We had Brienne and Pod and the Hound already. And what do we have of the state of the country? Except one man dying and another poor man and his daughter. And there are elements of fantasy in the books that I don't find in the show. Maybe they will lead to nothing in the end. I don't know. But for me it gives a different feeling between the books and the show. It's my Tolkien love there. :) You have to keep in mind, a picture is worth 1000 words. The show doesn't need to elaborate on the state of Westeros after the war in the same way that the books do...they can simply show it in such a way that the books never could. As far as the fantasy elements are concerned, it's obvious that they have cut out some to make it more accessible to a general audience...but that doesn't mean they have rid themselves completely of them. I would bet that we end up seeing more of them this season and beyond...simply because the story requires it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I read alot of wishful thinking (understandable) but at the end of the day, from an holistic pov, the differences between show and book will be on a comparable level to differences in general between book and TV/movie versions of the same story (granted, I only just finished S2 and a couples of Episodes of S3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Not sure if it's reliable or not but the news on the radio this morning stated it was confirmed Season 6 will air before the next book comes out and the show will finish before the books are published. This was Kiss FM so not entirely sure it's 100% reliable, I don't think the show finishing before the books is a surprise for anyone but I had hoped Winds would be out before the next series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 ^In truth, there's only one 'reliable source' you can turn to when it comes to the completion of the book. That would be Mr Martin himself. The publishers would have the release date for it being on sale, but only after it's completed. Any others stating a set date are just spouting hypotheticals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousePotterz Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I never said that the multiplication of the characters was important ("most of those missing characters are unimportant, even UnCat"). And yes, the main idea is that the would-be-kings do their petty wars while the commoners are paying the price and the land go to ruin. Maybe HBO will put that clear. Maybe they will if they really use the AFFC material. We had Brienne and Pod and the Hound already. And what do we have of the state of the country? Except one man dying and another poor man and his daughter. And there are elements of fantasy in the books that I don't find in the show. Maybe they will lead to nothing in the end. I don't know. But for me it gives a different feeling between the books and the show. It's my Tolkien love there. :) Not to say that your post is saying this, but I think it's important to point out that just because a character like Lady Stoneheart or Aegon are omitted from the show, does not mean that their roles in the books are irrelevant. The most obvious argument in support of that point is that the books not being finished yet, we simply do not know the final purpose they serve in the narrative. The second argument in support of that assertion is that this is an adaptation of a very detailed, very expansive story...almost exhaustingly so. The television audience doesn't have the maps in the front and back cover to refer to, nor do they have the 50-100 pages of details on the major houses and factions in the story. An Unsullied viewer of the show is probably already hard-pressed to remember who in the heck everyone is. Us book readers are often forgetful of that. The showrunners are not. If they can use an already existing character in the show that viewers will already know something about to achieve the narrative purpose of a new character in the books, the Aegons and the Ariannes and the UnCats and the lesser Greyjoys, etc., then they will, and they likely should. The other thing we book readers need to do is realize that just because a character from the books is omitted, doesn't mean their narrative purpose is, and if their narrative purpose isn't extraneous to the overall plot, neither will it be in the future novels. As for where I stand on the purpose of this thread, I welcome knowing the ending before 2025 in any form. It'll clearly be the show that reveals it first, but I use the word 'reveal' instead of 'spoil' intentionally. The show can have the same ending as the books, and it won't spoil anything for me. The show is a simpler pleasure than the books, it's more visceral and bloody and brutal, but the books have far more layers and texture than the show. Also, seeing as there's likely to be a good deal of time between the ending of GoT and ASOIaF, the memory of the show ending will definitely have receded before I pick up ADoS and finish the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Not sure if it's reliable or not but the news on the radio this morning stated it was confirmed Season 6 will air before the next book comes out and the show will finish before the books are published. This was Kiss FM so not entirely sure it's 100% reliable, I don't think the show finishing before the books is a surprise for anyone but I had hoped Winds would be out before the next series. at least after it's filmed season 6 will start filming after season 5 finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Not to say that your post is saying this, but I think it's important to point out that just because a character like Lady Stoneheart or Aegon are omitted from the show, does not mean that their roles in the books are irrelevant. The most obvious argument in support of that point is that the books not being finished yet, we simply do not know the final purpose they serve in the narrative. Yes. The absence in the show of any character or any part of any plot, Dorne, the Ironborn, whatever, do not presume of their importance in the finale of ASoIaF. I do not presume (nay, I do not believe) that all the important elements of the books will be replicated beforehand by the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marakh Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No matter how "short-cutted" the show is, I can't help but be disappointed about the fact that I will be reading A Dream of Spring already knowing who will sit on the Iron Throne. Imagine reading ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. That would be disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No matter how "short-cutted" the show is, I can't help but be disappointed about the fact that I will be reading A Dream of Spring already knowing who will sit on the Iron Throne. Imagine reading ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. That would be disgusting. ...I DID read ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. I don't see what's 'disgusting' about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Swell Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No matter how "short-cutted" the show is, I can't help but be disappointed about the fact that I will be reading A Dream of Spring already knowing who will sit on the Iron Throne. Imagine reading ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. That would be disgusting. You'll live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No matter how "short-cutted" the show is, I can't help but be disappointed about the fact that I will be reading A Dream of Spring already knowing who will sit on the Iron Throne. Imagine reading ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. That would be disgusting. Since several people I know bought the books after the Red Wedding episode, I guess I don't understand what you are trying to say. I started reading The Walking Dead after watching the show. Same with Dredd, after seeing the Karl Urban movie. There are dozens of books I've read after seeing the movie, too long a list for me to type out right now. I get that there's a lot of bitterness on this site for the show overtaking the books, but surely you cannot be bitter about the fact that the producers, writers, showrunners understand that it is their job to make sure the story is told year after year, due to contractual obligations? They cannot wait for each book to come out for that season to be filmed/aired. If Mr. Martin wants to take time off from writing aSoIaF, he is free to do so. HBO does not have that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No matter how "short-cutted" the show is, I can't help but be disappointed about the fact that I will be reading A Dream of Spring already knowing who will sit on the Iron Throne. Imagine reading ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. That would be disgusting. I've read the books 2 or 3 times already, and I intend to do it again. Knowing the RW and reading it again is not a problem. Of course you do not have the surprise. But you note things you missed before, or you forgot. It is not (much) missing the experience of the first read that is the most difficult. It is that, for me, the story will not be true (canon), until I read the GRRM version. And I don't care what will be canon for others thereafter. It's me. But I know, and see it plenty here, that it is different for some others. And that's fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No matter how "short-cutted" the show is, I can't help but be disappointed about the fact that I will be reading A Dream of Spring already knowing who will sit on the Iron Throne. Imagine reading ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. That would be disgusting. I read the books knowing about The Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, Tyrion killing Tywin, Jon getting Stabbed, Drogon roasting the slaver and a few others. To be honest apart from Jon it made very little impact on my enjoyment of the story. There was still so many other plots and twists that made up for it. Not to mention the aftermath of all these things. Knowing the final endgame is going to really drag down the final two books though. Especially TWOW when we will find out about lots of new plots but we will already know how they play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No matter how "short-cutted" the show is, I can't help but be disappointed about the fact that I will be reading A Dream of Spring already knowing who will sit on the Iron Throne. Imagine reading ASOS already knowing about the Red Wedding. That would be disgusting. To each his own. I can watch a movie titled, say, "Romeo and Juliet", "Macbeth", or "Titanic", knowing full well that the young lovers ain't gonna make it, the ambitious thane won't hold the throne for long, and the fancy ship ain't seeing the other side of the Atlantic. ETA: sorry for all the spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beron Stark Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 please erase this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRabbit Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Some of you guys crack me up. It's like you're so offended that the show is going to finish before the books that you have to convince yourselves that the show's ending will only be somewhat similar to the books so it doesn't ruin your future enjoyment of said books. It kind of reminds me of an author who convinced himself he would finish his series before the TV show did because the show had to get through five books before it caught up to him. Then it was well the last two published books are so big, so several seasons can be made of those. Then it was about a hiatus or a movie down the road. Do you guys know who I'm talking about?But now even Martin has to admit the show will beat him. The ending will be the same. We can all debate if the coming seasons are spoilers or revelations. That's about it. Time to accept what will soon be a reality. What I'd like to know is if the quality of the show is diminished in season 6 and 7 because the books aren't published yet can part of the blame be put on Martin's door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 What I'd like to know is if the quality of the show is diminished in season 6 and 7 because the books aren't published yet can part of the blame be put on Martin's door? Of course not. People will automatically assume that D&D can't handle it without Martin's input and will place the blame on them. Basically, they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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