Are there any clues to why people haven't sailed the Sunset Sea?

[Varysfan]

The fact anyone who has tried to sail the sunset sea has failed to make it across and return has been mentioned in the books, but it seems strange this has happened as there are many mentions of capable navy's throughout history and many have sailed the other way to Asshai (I appreciate there are stop offs to replenish supplies that way but plenty could be put on a big ship to keep the crew going for a long time). So are there any clues to what is actually stopping people returning that I haven't noticed? Perhaps a legion of Krakens, a race such as those who made the sea stone chair preventing anyone's return, active volcanoes destroying anyone who insists on pushing on? I'm open to crackpot theroies as well as something actually referencing the text of ASOIAF, AWOIAF or D&E stories lol

[Kyll.Ing.]

Simply put - because there are no indications there is anything beyond it at all, at least within a reasonable range. No islands, no substantiated tales about lands on the other side, and an expedition would be hugely expensive for no certain benefit. One of the Starks tried to take the expense, and was lost at sea with his entire fleet. It seems nobody have been tempted to try to replicate the feat after that.

As for "capable navies", well, it seems that no, Planetosi navigation technology hasn't really taken the step towards "blue water" yet. Sailing is mostly done within sight of land, and even crossing the narrow sea can be extremely perilous. It seems like the people of the Summer Islands are the only ones with a capability to navigate over vast stretches of sea with some degree of accuracy.

One weird exception exists, though: Lonely Light, and the Farwynds who live there. When the Ironborn descended on the Shield Islands, they sailed south out of sight of land, which was said to be an extremely risky and unprecedented move. Yet sailing from Pyke to Lonely Light is a stretch farther than Gulltown - Braavos, and we don't hear of Farwynds who lose their way trying to get back home after businesses on the rest of the Iron Islands. Lonely Light is a small place in a big ocean, and I suspect that the navigation technology you'd need to consisently be able to go there, would enable a fleet to sail well out of sight of land. I think some inconsistency is at play here. The lighthouse at the Lonely Light wouldn't be sufficient for such a long stretch.

I guess you could make a case for Naath too - slavers are said to descend on the island rather routinely, yet that would also require seafaring capabilities that all the major fleets seem to lack.

[Varysfan]

Simply put - because there are no indications there is anything beyond it at all, at least within a reasonable range. No islands, no substantiated tales about lands on the other side, and an expedition would be hugely expensive for no certain benefit. One of the Starks tried to take the expense, and was lost at sea with his entire fleet. It seems nobody have been tempted to try to replicate the feat after that.

As for "capable navies", well, it seems that no, Planetosi navigation technology hasn't really taken the step towards "blue water" yet. Sailing is mostly done within sight of land, and even crossing the narrow sea can be extremely perilous. It seems like the people of the Summer Islands are the only ones with a capability to navigate over vast stretches of sea with some degree of accuracy.

One weird exception exists, though: Lonely Light, and the Farwynds who live there. When the Ironborn descended on the Shield Islands, they sailed south out of sight of land, which was said to be an extremely risky and unprecedented move. Yet sailing from Pyke to Lonely Light is a stretch farther than Gulltown - Braavos, and we don't hear of Farwynds who lose their way trying to get back home after businesses on the rest of the Iron Islands. Lonely Light is a small place in a big ocean, and I suspect that the navigation technology you'd need to consisently be able to go there, would enable a fleet to sail well out of sight of land. I think some inconsistency is at play here. The lighthouse at the Lonely Light wouldn't be sufficient for such a long stretch.

I guess you could make a case for Naath too - slavers are said to descend on the island rather routinely, yet that would also require seafaring capabilities that all the major fleets seem to lack.

Good reply although seems to suggest that although there aren't navies with the ability to navigate oceans there should be, with their knowledge of other things should the maesters not have come up with something, and the Valyrians consider other advanced knowledge they seem to have (though I can't remember their seafaring desires are they were obviously more focused on transport by dragon)!

[AdmiralKyrd]

It's a big ocean with no known end.

Everyone sailing west in legend and history has never returned.

Their ships and navigation are still primitive.

There's no need for anyone to sail west.

[Barri_The_Bold]

Since GRRM is known to use similarities to our real world, you have to consider that ASoIaF takes place in a medieval setting, so we can assume Planetosi sailors face similar problems.

In the European Middle Ages ships were pretty small and not fit to sail the open sea. Another problem was navigation. The only way to navigate was by landmarks ashore, so they had to keep in sight of land. Navigating with the help of stars was imprecise at best and we know nothing about the stars on the Planetosi sky.

But the biggest problem I see is that of motivation. Why should they sail into the Sunset Sea? What could they gain by it? Of course there are some adventurers who just want to explore, but the majority of people is not motivated if there is nothing to gain from it. The great discoveries (from a European point of view) in our world were made through greedy people like the conquistadores in search for gold and silver and later the search for ivory and spices in Africa. I don't see any similarities to that on Planetos.

[Sigbjorn]

It is possible to sail to Asshai and keep the coast in sight the majority of time. Historically sailors did the same thing until advances in ship building and navigation made ocean voyages possible. It's the same reason you nees to research Astronomy in Civilization games before your ship s can leave the sight of land.

Remember that it was a big deal when Victarion sailed out to sea to avoid watch towers in the reach. Similarly it was a feat of daring when the Vikings sailed to Iceland, Greenland, and Nova Scotia.

[Kyll.Ing.]

I also think the (well-known) attempts at conquering Sothoryos has been an influence. Namely, every attempt failed, there was nothing to find there, and a vast majority of those staying there died from diseases or mystical circumstances or whatever. The Sothoryi are dangerous in their own right, but the wildlife and diseases are the real killers.

Pretty much every corner of Planetos, from a Westerosi point of view, is a scary and at times evil place where gruesome death lurks around every corner. Okay, that was probably what the medieval Europeans thought about the world across the sea too, but Planetos actually has magic. There are documented magical dangers at every fringe of the world: The biting cold and the Others in the north. The darkness and inhospitality of the Shadowlands beyond Asshai. The Land of Shrykes and the desolate, dead wastes of northeast Essos. The plague-ridden, forbidding Sothoryos. The dreadful Thousand Islands where the fish are misshapen and the inhabitants fear the water. In short, far away wherever you look there are strange lands filled with strange people (who are genetically different from Westerosi), and few who venture there have ever returned.

Why would the Westerosi believe anything different lay across the Sunset Sea? In every other direction, the faraway lands are exceedingly dangerous, un-explored and the climate is rather hostile. That's not exactly conditions that encourage exploration.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Euron is said to have sailed everywhere if I remember correctly.

But as others have said, it seems to vast for anyone to sail it. A few people believe Dany will circumnavigate the globe going via Asshai to Westeros, I'm not convinced on this, but i suppose it could happen. If I am talking about the wrong sea, forgive my mistake.

[Varysfan]

Euron is said to have sailed everywhere if I remember correctly.

But as others have said, it seems to vast for anyone to sail it. A few people believe Dany will circumnavigate the globe going via Asshai to Westeros, I'm not convinced on this, but i suppose it could happen. If I am talking about the wrong sea, forgive my mistake.

No that's the right sea and I don't understand how people think this if nobody has ever done it before?

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Some tried ,but the never returning kind of put a damper on it.

[TheSovereignGrave]

It's just really, really big. And there's liable to not be any sort of major stops along the way. The Vikings may have discovered America in the 10th century, but if I recall correctly they could jump from Iceland to Greenland to mainland Canada. They didn't have to travel over massive tracts of open ocean to get there. It could be that there aren't any convenient stops along the Sunset Sea (or that they haven't been discovered yet).

[kimim]

Martin based his world on our world, and on our world, premodern people did cross the sea to the Americas. People did it in the Ice Age, obviously, and they did it later, too, as the Vikings settled in North America. In the kingsmoot, Gylbert Farwynd claims that there is a land across the Sunset Sea. Maybe there is. Maybe some people did sail, and bring back reports. That knowledge would remain in the realm of myth, as the Ironborn are a crazy group of people living on the edge of the known world. Westerosi maps are not omniscient authorial, but limited to what the cultures are officially aware of.

[The Bastard of Walton]

No that's the right sea and I don't understand how people think this if nobody has ever done it before?

I guess the reason I think it is because I view Westeros as Western Europe, so in my mind as a reader I'm thinking that there must be a America's continent out in the sunset sea.

So by going via Asshaii to me seems difficult. But it very possible that Dany may do it.

[Ser Skwisgaar]

Martin based his world on our world, and on our world, premodern people did cross the sea to the Americas. People did it in the Ice Age, obviously, and they did it later, too, as the Vikings settled in North America. In the kingsmoot, Gylbert Farwynd claims that there is a land across the Sunset Sea. Maybe there is. Maybe some people did sail, and bring back reports. That knowledge would remain in the realm of myth, as the Ironborn are a crazy group of people living on the edge of the known world. Westerosi maps are not omniscient authorial, but limited to what the cultures are officially aware of.

Very very few people did it. Those who did it during the Ice Age largely walked. Later, they were able to follow the coasts from Russia to Alaska. The Vikings who settled in North America didn't last long, and left little and less of their time here. So "settled" really means "they made it". And they were the best sailors of their day.

You are right in that Westerosi maps are limited, but Planetos has yet to hit their "Age of Exploration". There is little interest in exploration for exploration's sake. Seafaring technology is limited. That's why Corlys Velaryon is so famous. He's done just about as well as anyone.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Since GRRM is known to use similarities to our real world, you have to consider that ASoIaF takes place in a medieval setting, so we can assume Planetosi sailors face similar problems.

In the European Middle Ages ships were pretty small and not fit to sail the open sea. Another problem was navigation. The only way to navigate was by landmarks ashore, so they had to keep in sight of land. Navigating with the help of stars was imprecise at best and we know nothing about the stars on the Planetosi sky.

But the biggest problem I see is that of motivation. Why should they sail into the Sunset Sea? What could they gain by it? Of course there are some adventurers who just want to explore, but the majority of people is not motivated if there is nothing to gain from it. The great discoveries (from a European point of view) in our world were made through greedy people like the conquistadores in search for gold and silver and later the search for ivory and spices in Africa. I don't see any similarities to that on Planetos.

There is plenty known about the sky. The Maesters get a ring for it. Davos talks about them. I know there are different names for the constellations, but the Ice Dragon comes to mind with his bright blue eye.

[ciliate]

It's entirely possible no one has ever come back because the lands beyond the Sunset Sea are awesome. Or terrible and they died in dungeons.

But I actually think it's magic, something related to the magic which has messed up the seasons. No evidence just. . . a feeling I got from the world book. I just got this tickly feeling that there is a little hidden story here for the hardcore fans. I doubt the answer is going to be integral to the current plot lines but there is some type of mystery in the Sunset Sea. Maybe we'll get a short story some day.

Or it's simply just huge. I'm reminded that Sothoryos is not only hostile but seemingly without end. One of Aegon's sisters (I forget which one) flew south on her dragon wanting to find the end of the continent. She never did. She flew for weeks and weeks and eventually just had to turn back. BTW, I think that precedence puts a bit of a damper on the Dany-circumnavigating theory.

[The Snark of Winterfell]

No that's the right sea and I don't understand how people think this if nobody has ever done it before?

I think because of Quaite's quote. To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.

As far as the Sunset sea, I agree with most of the people that it's a navigation issue. The Farwynds of the Lonely Light most likely explored the area tho. In AFFC, he boasted on sailing to the lands beyond the Sunset Sea where everybody will be a king and queen.

[TheSovereignGrave]

Or it's simply just huge. I'm reminded that Sothoryos is not only hostile but seemingly without end. One of Aegon's sisters (I forget which one) flew south on her dragon wanting to find the end of the continent. She never did. She flew for weeks and weeks and eventually just had to turn back. BTW, I think that precedence puts a bit of a damper on the Dany-circumnavigating theory.

That wasn't one of Aegon's sister, it was a Dragonlord named Jaenara Belaerys.

[Varysfan]

That wasn't one of Aegon's sister, it was a Dragonlord named Jaenara Belaerys.

Is this from AWOIAF? I can't remeger reading this!

[TheSovereignGrave]

Is this from AWOIAF? I can't remember reading this!

Yeah. From the Sothoryos section of tWoIaF: "Jaenara Belaerys flew her dragon, Terrax, farther south than any man or woman had ever gone before, seeking the boiling seas and steaming rivers of legend, but found only endless jungle, deserts, and mountains. She returned to the Freehold after three years to declare that Sothoryos was as large as Essos, 'a land without end.'"