GrammarYatzy Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I guess the next logical question is why does the Watch not have a lot more senile old men? Sure they have a lot of older characters in their midst, but there should be many more old guys like Aemon who are way past their prime and couldn't swing a sword. They do serve for "life" after all... That's just a standard fault with the writing in general. Why aren't there 100,000 people with the last name stark? Does only the first son have children for the last 8,000 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllinForAegon Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If you're approaching it from a modern, individualistic, narcissistic position then of course it seems crazy. You also have the benefit of knowing just about everything about it (in glorious high definition) which a Westerosi of feudal times would not. But if you were some poor farmhand trying to scratch out a peasant living, the promise of regular meals and an honourable purpose could well sway you. As for the nobles, look at the flock of second, third born nobles who threw themselves into the Crusades and the Reconquista. And there's always the regular intake of criminals; which were used to great effect in reality by the likes of the British Army in the 19th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Jon was pretty much duped into joining with stories of the nobility and glory of the Night's Watch. That his father or uncle didn't tell him what the Watch really was surprised me. It was rather sad that Tyrion of all people had to be the one to tell him. Mormont and Benjen's reasons for joining the Watch are unknown both in the show and book universe. There's a lot of speculation, but that's all it really is. Your average peasant accused of a crime, real or not, often does join. Sometimes he's just so impoverished that shelter, three meals a day and a purpose sound good. But nobles? Really, with the exception of some Northerners that take it a bit seriously than the south, no nobles join unless they're accused of a crime and need a way out. It's pretty much a lowly conscript army with some pretty paint slapped over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC_Lymond Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yes, it's the same problem that the Kingsguard has. Martin wanted to be dramatic so he made them for life, but it's quite impractical. The NW, at least, has more room for over the hill guys than the KG at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam with Hooters Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I guess the next logical question is why does the Watch not have a lot more senile old men? Sure they have a lot of older characters in their midst, but there should be many more old guys like Aemon who are way past their prime and couldn't swing a sword. They do serve for "life" after all...Medieval life expectancy? Harsh living conditions? You can also assume that the elderly or frail are given lighter duties than younger, stronger men, and so aren't prominent enough to be "on screen." Aemon is the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalsplit Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I know it is speculation, but I believe Benjen joining might have something to do with Lyanna and guilt of a mistake he had done on it. ıt is also probable Jon wasn't warned thoroughly because R+L=J and Ned wanted to protect his life, thus "we will speak when I return". Once you join NW, you give up on your claims and Jon's claims are dangerous for him. It makes sense to not speak with him before he took his oath. And really, there are only a handful of nobles joining the Watch. Some people are not as well reasoned as you are, so it makes sense (creatively it makes sense, because they want it to happen :cool4:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacabb Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I like your post!But don't you see the similarity with today's prisons?A homeless guy could coomit a crime and go there.But a second son, no matter how honorable will not go to prison because there is no coming back.Someone pointed out its like the Navy. If the navy forces you to stay on a ship for Life! I guess no one would join the navy today.People join honorable posts because they have the option of getting back their freedom.A group of brothers who defended the wall make that stupid lifetime imprisonment condition for its members (at a time when all were volunteers) . Why? That would be incredible! Imagine if the United States Government sent prisoners overseas to fight their battles before they sent actual troops! Jon didn't have many options. Joining the NW was his only option in regards to doing something honorable. He was also naive and was given the "sugar coated" version of the Nights watch. Remember the conversation with him and Tyrion on their way to the NW in season 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 GoT shows people joining the watch voluntarly. Why do they do that?Why did Jon join the watch?Because Benjen did?So why did Benjen join the watch?To chill...Literally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I don't blame Ned for encouraging Jon to join the Night's watch. Jon still made his choice to say the oath after seeing what it was really like. The watch still had honorable men like Aemon, Qhorin half hand, Jeor and Benjen in Ned's time as lord. Also consider the consequences that would occur if Jon fathered a child with Targaryen features. Do you believe the Iron Throne would ignore it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettes Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 In the books regarding Jon: Ned found out about Jons intentions when he was about to leave for Kings Landing. Ned wanted to warn Jon about the Nights Watch, when he found out, but since he couldnt bring him to Court and Catelyn refused to have him at Winterfell he was persuaded not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Most people don't join the watch. Jon Snow and guys like Benjen are very rare cases. Even Allister Thorne was forced to join after the Targs lost the rebellion it was that or death. (Hence is why he has always had it for Jon Snow even more, being from a high born family who actually chose to be there) But majority of the people are criminals and when offered death or take the black they choose to take the black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Jon was pretty much duped into joining with stories of the nobility and glory of the Night's Watch. That his father or uncle didn't tell him what the Watch really was surprised me. It was rather sad that Tyrion of all people had to be the one to tell him. Mormont and Benjen's reasons for joining the Watch are unknown both in the show and book universe. There's a lot of speculation, but that's all it really is. Your average peasant accused of a crime, real or not, often does join. Sometimes he's just so impoverished that shelter, three meals a day and a purpose sound good. But nobles? Really, with the exception of some Northerners that take it a bit seriously than the south, no nobles join unless they're accused of a crime and need a way out. It's pretty much a lowly conscript army with some pretty paint slapped over it. Mormont joined to give his son Jorah a better life by making him Lord of Bear Island and inherited all his lands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Indoctrination. They get their head filled with nonsense about how joining the Night's Watch is a "honour" or a "duty" or a "brithright" and that swearing a completely apeshit oath somehow makes them special.You can see that process with Ollie on the show; he was a normal kid living in a village, then the Wildlings killed his people, he fled to the Night's Watch, they exploited his grief and a couple of seasons of indoctrination later he stabs Jon "FOR THE WATCH!" Out of Universe we of course know that there are White Walkers, in universe however, where nobody believed in the Others anymore the Night's Watch is basically a monastic border patrol with a live-time commitment, located in the worst place in Westeros.Yeah I also would rather have my dick chopped off, and my head to be honest. A lot about the Night's Watch makes no sense. If they are starved for recruits, why not allow people to serve for a limited number of years? Orwhat harm could allowing their men to visit the whore house actually do? As others said Jon was tricked, into joining the Watch; aside from one cryptic hint by Benjen, he never was told what the NW actually is. However I disagree that Jon had no other choice; first, it's not like Catelyn would have killed him and second he could have travelled to Essos and joined some order there, at least it's warmer than the wall and he'd be allowed to enjoy life more.Benjen was likely tricked into joining up as well (perhaps to save his father the trouble of securing lands for two additional sons) and seemed to regret it at some level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 That would be incredible! Imagine if the United States Government sent prisoners overseas to fight their battles before they sent actual troops! Jon didn't have many options. Joining the NW was his only option in regards to doing something honorable. He was also naive and was given the "sugar coated" version of the Nights watch. Remember the conversation with him and Tyrion on their way to the NW in season 1?Hehe, Nope I guess the rapists will rape people at gunpoint, the robbers will rob banks and steal gold by force and probably just play GTA in real life overseas.So bad idea dude.I believe the NW is a plot hole by GRRM. He did not think the details through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys III of his name Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 rapist murderer bastards thievesson low in line members of greater houses if the firstborn had already enough male children to not risk the future of dynastythese former ones and the bastards are those who can hope to win electionsbastards joins because they're are tired to be bastards and are unable to create their own brand new dynastyall the other scum are there just to avoid death penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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