Byfort of Corfe Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 At the end of the day are the Lannisters (more specifically Tywin's immediate family) evil or are they tragic or somewhere in between? I think that it's somewhere in between but actually leaning toward tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 At the end of the day are the Lannisters (more specifically Tywin's immediate family) evil or are they tragic or somewhere in between? I think that it's somewhere in between but actually leaning toward tragic. To say that they are evil certainly takes away the complexity of Martin's characters. I kind of agree that in many ways they are more tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowborn Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I'd say that at the end of the day they are, like most people, greatly influenced by their upbringing and the world around them. Tywin's personality is by large a consequence of his disdain of his father's misrule. Tyrion's bad traits and actions are very much influenced by his father and sister's treatment. Cersei has been largely affected by Robert. Jaime were forced to watch some of The Mad King's worst atrocities. Evil is a boring concept, and doesn't apply to as important characters as the Lannisters. I'd call Gregor Clegane and Ramsay evil. But only because they are in a fantasy novel. Edit: With evil not applying I mean that GRRM doesn't make that important characters evil, not that they are not evil because they are important characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZG1234 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I would say there aren't many named characters that could be termed truly evil. There's the Magnar and Harma Dogshead, the Mountain and his men, Ramsay and his bastards' boys, Craster Amory Lorch and Vargo Hoat. I don't even think the Others or Bloodraven are exactly evil. Will they do some manipulative and destructive things to achieve their ends? Sure, but something motivates them beyond wanting to draw blood. As for the Lannisters, in particular Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion, I think they're more selfish and self-obsessed than evil, tragic or anything else. I do think that Jaime and Cersei will die tragically, probably with Jaime killing Cersei to prevent her from giving KL to the wildfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistressofWhisperers Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I lean more toward tragic. I often wonder what the Lannister kids would have been like if Joanna had lived. Would Cersei be a better person with a healthy female role-model instead of being all about the dick-envy and narcissism? Could Joanna have kept Cersei and Jamie apart, thus removing the horrible influence she had in Jaime's life? Would Tyrion have actually felt familial love from someone other than Jaime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 There are evil people there, there are tragic people there, there those who are both, there those who are neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Blackfyre Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 blond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Just reread Alayaya's whipping, so I'm leaning toward evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 As for the Lannisters, in particular Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion, I think they're more selfish and self-obsessed than evil, tragic or anything else. I do think that Jaime and Cersei will die tragically, probably with Jaime killing Cersei to prevent her from giving KL to the wildfire. This. Every one of the Lannister siblings has an incredibly inflated view of themselves, which usually leads them to make stupid decisions that bring them tragedy. Jaime is admittedly learning to handle himself differently, but Tyrion has only gotten worse over time and Cerei is too far gone to change who she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen.Sansa.Lannister Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 None of the Lannisters are evil, any more than any of the other characters are evil. As others have said before me, they are more tragic than anything. There is still room for redemption for the Lannisters, especially where Jaime and Tyrion are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion I Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 At the end of the day are the Lannisters (more specifically Tywin's immediate family) evil or are they tragic or somewhere in between? I think that it's somewhere in between but actually leaning toward tragic. I also lean towards tragic. None of the Lannisters are evil, any more than any of the other characters are evil. As others have said before me, they are more tragic than anything. There is still room for redemption for the Lannisters, especially where Jaime and Tyrion are concerned. Well, we'll see about Cersei. But basically, yeah, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen.Sansa.Lannister Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I also lean towards tragic. Well, we'll see about Cersei. But basically, yeah, I agree.Yeah Cersei is headed on a path for self-destruction at this point, especially if the prophecy proves true in the end. But I still think Tyrion and Jaime will be redeemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion I Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Yeah Cersei is headed on a path for self-destruction at this point, especially if the prophecy proves true in the end. But I still think Tyrion and Jaime will be redeemed. A man can hope. Yeah. Tyrion at the end of ADwD is not the Tyrion at the beginning of ADwD or AGoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLightning Lord Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The three Lannister kids could have been great, just a shame Tywin was father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dovahkiin Snow Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think Cersei is evil. I don't see how she isn't. There's a name for every different thing that is wrong in her head, by altogether I think she has a truly evil heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Yep they are evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolett Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Looks like the Lannisters are on a downhill path at the moment. I can't wait for Cersei to leave the scene for good and will applaud the volanqar, whoever he is. She's served her purpose in my opinion. That said, I do hope Tommen and Myrcella survive. I think there's still a good mix of Lannisters left (at the moment) to ensure the survival of the house at large. We still don't know where Tyrek for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Tywin is pretty freakin' evil. All his children are primarily (and variously) damaged by having Tywin as their father. Cersei admires Tywin the most and tries to be as evil as he is (though she's really not cut out of it at all). Tyrion, on the other hand, has some of Tywin's tendencies, but also has some good in him. Jaime is the least like Tywin and doesn't really want to be like him, either. Plus, he had the benefit of his father actually liking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 None of the Lannisters are evil, any more than any of the other characters are evil. As others have said before me, they are more tragic than anything. There is still room for redemption for the Lannisters, especially where Jaime and Tyrion are concerned. There are some evil characters in the novels: Gregor, Ramsay, Vargo Hoat, but I agree you can't stereotype this family. Cersei doesn't start off purely evil, but she's pretty evil in Feast, what with handing people over to a crazy scientist for human experimentation. Tywin's cruel, but he's also someone you can survive bending the knee to. Jaime, Tyrion are both capable of change. Kevan obeys his brother, but he's not a terrible human being to his family, and he's sensible as Hand. Tommen and Myrcella sound like great people, not evil at all. Aunt Genna also sounds like a decent person, and has some stories that make tywin sound ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLightning Lord Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Tywin is pretty freakin' evil. All his children are primarily (and variously) damaged by having Tywin as their father. Cersei admires Tywin the most and tries to be as evil as he is (though she's really not cut out of it at all). Tyrion, on the other hand, has some of Tywin's tendencies, but also has some good in him. Jaime is the least like Tywin and doesn't really want to be like him, either. Plus, he had the benefit of his father actually liking him. isn't jaime's siege of riverrun trying to prove to everyone he can be like Tywin ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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