Lets be straight forward: What is Sansa's destiny?

[Ser Pounce FTW]

And South is where the characters signalled in Sansa's arc are or will be. Her safety has come to represent Jaime's honour, Brienne similarly. Cersei is her antagoniser. Tyrion her husband, set to emerge as a political dragon riding force and Sandor her love reborn.

This is very interesting to think about. Despite the urgency and scope of the problem of the Others, I suppose not everyone will be engaged with them.

I think that Sansa's destiny could be to live and get some happiness.

I think because Sansa was willing to do anything to have her life be a song means she will not have her life be a song. But I do think she'll get to a position of power over her life and that will have her feel ...... satisfied.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I think because Sansa was willing to do anything to have her life be a song means she will not have her life be a song. But I do think she'll get to a position of power over her life and that will have her feel ...... satisfied.

Yes, I don't think she will have all her childhood dreams come true, nor that she'd want this after all her experiences. I think about something of a more down to earth and more grown up sort of happiness, which includes the acceptance that loss, sorrows and regrets will necessarily be a part of everyone's life at some point eventually.

[ChillyPolly]

I would guess her destiny is to be the inspiration that turns monsters into True Knights. She has already had a good influence on: Sandor, Lancel, and Sweetrobin. Tyrion, however, seems to be headed down a darker path.

[LongRider]

I really don't get the cooperation with SR symbolism. On the contrary, it's Littlefinger who gave her useful help on how to build the snow castle and Sweetrobin who destroyed it. The slap does not help into infering a potential cooperation between the two from that scene.

One pulled on one end, one on the other end, the head came off and Sansa put it on a spike. Without both pulling at the 'giant' it wouldn't have been destroyed.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

One pulled on one end, one on the other end, the head came off and Sansa put it on a spike. Without both pulling at the 'giant' it wouldn't have been destroyed.

I see. It could work if only Sweetrobin had identified the doll as his ennemies or, at least, not as himself. But as it is, the context does not help, IMO.

[chrisdaw]

I really don't get the cooperation with SR symbolism. On the contrary, it's Littlefinger who gave her useful help on how to build the snow castle and Sweetrobin who destroyed it. The slap does not help into infering a potential cooperation between the two from that scene.

It's not future WF she rebuilt, it's WF how she remembered it, when her family were alive and she was safe and happy. It's not a scene to suggest she will rebuild it, it's a wake up call about the past, a Giant came and indiscriminately destroyed everything she loved without care. It's the curtain raiser to kick start her assessing how things came to be, to first realise that there was/is a giant and then to identify him. And when she does, well the Giant's fate is foreshadowing.

[Bran17]

Be the Queen.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Last time I looked, Robin was alive and kicking. Until he's not, your manslaughter charge is exaggeration at best. Besides, I've seen no convincing evidence that Sansa is willing to kill him. Littlefinger certainly is, but Robin's cousin? I don't think so. Nor do I think the two situations are that far removed.

A thought experiment, if you will. Robin Arryn is no longer Robin Arryn: he's Robin Stark, the only child of Ned and Catelyn, the heir to Winterfell. He also has shaking sickness. A deserter turns up; Ned has to execute him. Does he say "That's alright, Sweetrobin, you stay safe inside, I'll be back in a bit," thus proving to the Karstarks and Umbers and Boltons and all the rest that the heir to Winterfell is so frail that even witnessing his future duties is too much for him? Or does he say "Dose that child and get him on a pony. I'm sorry Catelyn, but he's got responsibilities."

I'm picking Ned takes door number 2, myself. I'm picking Sansa does too.

It may be risky and irresponsible and even morally dodgy of them, but it's not unreasonable, and nor is it un-Northern, best as I can tell.

Who's Robin Arryn? You gotta stop watching reruns.

[Jane99]

Yeah, yeah. Robert. Happy now? How does that change my argument, precisely?

[AllOfTheHours]

I know that it is quite a "popular" opinion that Littlefinger will rape her but I can't see it happening, at least not now. I know Sansa is his weakness but at this point, if he rapes her, his plans to control the North will tumble to the ground. He needs her to remain virgin until he reveals her true identity and then annul her marriage to Tyrion because it was never consumed. I can't see the always calculating Littlefinger making such a fatal mistake.

Yep! If LF was going to have sex with Sansa, he would have done it already. He lusts after her, but as a political pawn she is worth more as a virgin.

Rickon is traumatized and feral. Sure he can get over it, but he is a pretty risky choice as ruler. He's also very young. Whether Arya completes her training or not, she now has a skill set which does not prepare her to rule. Bran is the heir. He's also infertile, and might remain where he is. Sansa is the only Stark who is trained to play the game of thrones. Starks are in desperate need of such a person, as the refusal or inability to play the game is what ultimately kills both Robb and Ned. So Sansa might not rule Winterfell, but she is essential to whoever ends up with it.

I agree. Technically Bran should be Prince/Lord of Winterfell. If he comes back and claims his right to Winterfell, he could be a great ruler, but his heir would be one of his sibling's children because he is infertile. Having Rickon take his place entirely (Bran could pull a Maester Aemon and pass the throne) solves any possible issues with succession if Rickon lives, marries, and has children. However, Rickon doesn't remember Winterfell the way his siblings do. He doesn't remember the laws, culture, and history. He needs his siblings or at least Old Nan to bring Winterfell back to life. He can't recreate something he can't remember. I could see Sansa as a regent (officially or unofficially) since she has already proven good at the basics of the role (running Sweetrobin's household) and bringing WF back to life.

As for Arya's experience shaping her for leadership, I would suggest you reread Varys' speech:

This is Arya. It is not Sansa.

My point isn't that Arya will be queen in the North (although that would be cool). It's that it's ridiculous to claim that Sansa is the only Stark fit for a leadership role at Winterfell, when Bran already had that role, when Jon spent the better part of ADWD wrangling with Northern politics (including schooling Stannis about it), and when Arya's direwolf is leading an enormous pack (symbolism!) and Arya appears to be acquiring those very same experiences and skills which would make her fit for leadership, according to Varys.

Honestly, it seems like some fans take Kween Sansa as their desired endgame and try to work backwards to find a plausible way for her to get to that point, ignoring everything in the books--Bran, Rickon, Robb's will, etc.--that makes it extremely unlikely. A little more reasoned argument and a little less wishful thinking is required here.

I agree with what you're saying about the Kween Sansa arguments. Too much passion with too little evidence. But I feel like the same can be said about Kween Arya arguments. Too often these discussions over queenship seem to become a battle between the two sisters over who is worthier. When honestly they are both worthy and unworthy in their own ways. I think Arya could be a good queen, certainly, but I feel like Sansa could be an equally good queen. But I honestly am not sold on the idea that either will become a queen.

As for Sansa, she never wants to return to KL and is terrified by the prospect. She wants to go to Winterfell and maybe never marry again.

As for Arya I don't think she's any more likely to be Queen. Not because she isn't as smart/capable/political/whatever as Sansa. But because being Queen would completely veer off from her story now with the FM. Do we know if she can just leave the FM after learning so many secrets? They could hunt her down for being a deserter like the NW would or any sell sword company. I doubt the temple just lets people leave as they please. But even if they would just let her go without any repercussions, for her to just go back to Westeros and become a Queen or Lady (which she always rebelled against) and and have all her assassin training add up to a big red herring....just seems strange.

If she was meant to just go home, put down her sword, marry a lord, and have baby princes and princesses, she could have just spent her days in Essos working as a cleaning girl or translator in a wealthy manse. Or gone and found Dany in Mereen somehow. There was no reason for her to start training to be an assassin, unless GRRM wanted to give her a unique skill/power she would use in the future. I feel like becoming a Queen would be antithetical to her character journey and what I think is unique about her. She would be a bit like Robert - bored to tears by the tedious politics of Westeros and longing to be free and go exploring with a sword at her side again. Being Queen would be an empty honor, sure Arya would usurp Sansa's old dream and Sansa would have to call her "Your Grace," but for what? So she could be surrounded by fools and flatterers in the Red Keep? :drunk: Plus I always loved that she was uniquely the only highborn lady who never dreamed of being a Queen, unlike Arianne, Dany, Marge, Cersei, Sansa.

I could see her becoming Captain of the Guard at Winterfell. Or a knight like Brienne. Or marrying Gendry and living as she pleased with her sword (far away from the rigid rules/tedium of being a Queen). But I respect if other people read her character differently. :)

1. Bran is not going out of that tree.

2. Jon has refused Winterfell on the grounds that it belongs to Sansa.

3. Arya's training has nothing to do with acting as a liege lord.

Sansa's the one that has the political journey. I mean, George R. R. Martin said so himself. Not that It wasn't obvious from the books. After all, Littlefinger tells Sansa she needs to learn the only game that matters: The Game of Thrones. Moreover, Sansa's the one that built Winterfell from the snow. And she's the maiden destined to kill a savage giant in a castle made of Ice, right?

Exactly. I've once entertained the idea that Sansa would end in a position akin to Elizabeth of York, but that ship has sailed the moment her marriage with Willas didn't happened. Alayne's last chapter even outright explicits Sansa's position about marriages.

I agree! No matter where she ends up or what her title may be, Sansa is becoming a capable politician under LF's tutelage. (Better than her father, mother, and brothers Robb and Jon.) Sansa understands that leadership is more than being honorable, intelligent, and stubborn. It is about knowing your surroundings, all the players on the field, being wary of enemies and allies, and figuring out how to manipulate them.

She knows not to trust LF, but is also smart enough not to call him out with disdain/contempt every time she sees him (looking at you Ned). And she knows better than to make grand statements/acts of honor without thinking (unlike Ned telling Cersei his plan so she could protect her kids in GoT, or Catelyn kidnapping Tyrion because she trusted LF's boogus story, or Robb trusting the Freys/Boltons and killing Rikard Karstark for honor, or Jon's arrogance in isolating/ignoring his men while expecting them to serve him loyally after Mormont had been killed in a coup).

Sansa understands what it feels like to be beaten by the King's Guard (and doesn't trust knights' honor anymore), how to lie, and how to see nuance and shades of gray (like when she prays for her enemies in the sept). Sansa has the makings of a great leader with the Stark sense of honor married with the lessons she learned from KL and LF about how to play the game of thrones cleverly and subtly. The way she manipulates SR is a great start, she is the only one who can get through to him and make him do as she wishes. Once she applies this skill to other lords...Westeros best watch out. ;)

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yeah, yeah. Robert. Happy now? How does that change my argument, precisely?

I don't know. I forgot.

[Jane99]

Have a nice cup of tea then. Maybe some biscuits. That always works for me when I get forgetful. Which is about half a dozen times per day, generally. :D

[Lord Damian]

The Mad Mouse, will he simply spy and inform about her whearabouts? has he discovered her already and sent word? What becomes of this if Cersei finds out as she will be in power once more?

[GrammarYatzy]

There is almost zero chance Sansa will be queen of the north or have winterfell for any amount of time

Rickon is very clearly written for that stark end game leadership roll

She could be lady lannister or MAYBE 7 kingons queen but I dunno. Hard to tell how the hound gun will go off.

[redrubies]

Have her dreams and hopes crushed and destroyed.

Didn't she check those off her list at the Ruby Ford/Darry Castle?

[redrubies]

I was hoping for a Harrenhal Tourney 2.0 where Sansa(Alayne) and LF throw a huge dinner party for the Freys and Bolt-ons and remaining Lannisters in Red Wedding style. After she's knocked off 1,000 or so Walders, Big, Small, Black, (Tyres and Waldas too) she is revealed as Sansa Stark as the last Frey, The Late Walder Frey gets attacked by Sweet Robyn and then Sansa turns into a bat and flies away looking for her lost pack... (i honestly don't REALLY know obviously but it was a fun thought for me)*CHEERS!

[Neds Secret]

I just hope that it's not the same as lady's

[Beautiful Beard]

I think she'll live, Tyrion will reappear in Westeros, be pardoned by whoever's on the throne, become Lord of the rock and Sansa his loving wife and Lady of the Rock.

This will fittingly reward Tyrion for showing her kindness and give her the husband she deserves (in heart and intelligence if not looks) and get one over on Cersei by taking over her ancestral home.

[ni2tre]

She will rule the North as Regent until Rickon Stark, The King in the North comes of age.

My prediction.

[King of Winters]

I'm certain she'll end up like Elizabeth I, stay a virgin all her life, ruling on her own somewhere. Maybe Harrenhal, maybe the Eyrie.