Peter Baelish's downfall

[tseka]

would probably be his willingness to try his wit in battle.

Obviously we're all aware of how smart and cunning this guy is- but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would translate into tactical military brilliance.

Tywin Lannister was a wise and clever man- but proved to be an absolute failure in direct warfare.

He seems to be making moves with the soldiers of the Vale and I think this is the beginning of his downfall.

[Leonardo]

Nah he knows enough to put other people directly in charge, he's never taking the field again.

Though the way he spins the knife in AGOT seems like he can handle a blade well enough.

[Good Guy Garlan]

His idea to dress Garlan as Renly's Ghost was pretty good

[Fire Eater]

I think Baelish won't command any soldiers, but send a seasoned soldier to do the fighting for him. I think it is more likely at Sansa's hand when he makes a run for home.

[Nozlym]

isnt Sansa suppose to take down a giant???

[Byfort of Corfe]

Personally I doubt that LF will take the field, he prefers a knife in the back (preferably administered by someone else) to a lance in the chest. I think that LF will be taken down by someone that his overconfidence in his ablitiy to play the game leads him to believe that he or she is no threat. I'm guessing that he will eventually be taken down by Sansa. He's sharing all his secrets with her, telling her how he plays the game and how he thinks. He's forgetting his own advice, never let anyone know what you want or how you are doing things. Maybe Sansa does it herself or maybe she influences someone else to do it, but in the end LF will be a victim of his "love" for and need for his ersatz "Cat". He will pay for his need to show her how clever he is. Just my .02.

[White Ravens]

isnt Sansa suppose to take down a giant???

The sigil for House Baelish is the head of the Titan of Braavos.

[AllOfTheHours]

I think the Vale is going to fall apart underneath him. I believe the Royces know who Sansa is (Yohn and Myranda) and will play that hand in the next book. Either the Royces will take Sansa or, in the chaos, Shadrich will. And that will be the being plot change GRRM hinted at. IIRC he said he pulled Sansa's first chapters from WoW from ADwD because they would be a drastic change. So a change of location and a change of "protector" would fit that mark.

Also, I am one of the few people who doesn't think Sansa will kill LF. Well maybe at the very end if she gets back to Winterfell and LF tries to take her away she might kill him (so she can fulfill the prophecy), but otherwise I don't think so. Sansa knows she can't trust him, but unlike Ned who never understood what to make of ambiguous allies, Sansa can use LF to her advantage. For her to kill him now, when he seems to be working for her benefit, would be cutting off her nose to spite her face. It would isolate her and have short and long term consequences. However, if she gets better allies (like the Royces) and LF threatens a better plan for her wellbeing/return to Winterfell, I could see her betraying/imprisoning him and having to deal with not having killed him later.

[Ratbane]

I have no idea how it might be accomplished but it would be a great twist of irony if undead Cat was to wield the blade that ends him. I have often wondered what purpose Brienne and Cat will serve in the story to come. They almost seem like useless characters at this point.

[ValyrianCrafter]

One word: Sansa

[lomiller]

Roasted by a dragon

"Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amid a cheering crowd. From a stone tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire...mother of dragons...slayer of lies"

Appears to be the three remaining contestants for Iron Throne. The first is Stannis the second is Aegon. IMO the third is probably Littlfinger, his ancestral seat is a stone tower on the fingers, his coat of arms the the head of the titan of Braavos for the "stone beast" and his weapons are deception and concealing his role in things hence the "shadow fire". After Dany takes Kings Landing these are likely to be the three remaining pretenders to the throne she needs to defeat.

[Victor227]

The only time so far we've seen Littlefinger take a direct hand in a battle, it was with the 'Renly's Ghost' plan, which succeeds spectacularily (beyond reasonable expectation) at confusing and scaring the living hell out of Stannis' men at arms, and more than a few knights and lords as well, as Tyrion realizes later. He's not the guy to lead a charge, but he is the guy to find the opposing side's weakness and exploit it mercilessly for an advantage, even if he has to fabricate one from thin air.

[Nerevanin]

I doubt that LF will lead an army to a battle. He might come up with a strategy but when the battle comes, he will be sitting safe miles away from the battlefield. Even if you are 100% sure of all of your men, battlefield is a far too dangerous place.

As much as I like him, I'm afraid his downfall is inevitable but I hope he won't die. I suppose his downfall might be his ambitions and confidence. He already made a mistake with Shadrich, right now he is walking on eggs. His plans are pretty amazing but there are million things that can ruin them. The more power he gets, the closer he is to death. I think the people who can directly bring him down are 1) Varys, 2) Tyrion, 3) Sansa.

I guess it will be Sansa. She already is his weakness. He is confident that she is loyal to him and teaches her how to play the game. But if she really does it, definitely not now. Right now she is in a state that she likes him, respects him, sees him as her savior. I don't think at all that he would rape her, as some say, because her virginity is crucial for his plans. But thanks to his advices she will get certain skills and knowledge. My guess is that eventually she will be smart enough that she will realize and find some proofs for the fact, that it was Littlefinger who did some of the bad things that happened to her family - he betrayed Ned, maybe also persuaded Joffrey to execute him, he revealed Sansa's potential marriage to Willas to Tywin which resulted in Sansa's marriage to Tyrion, he (my theory) maybe sent the catspawn to kill Bran, he sold Jeyne to Boltons, and, of course, he killed her aunt in front of her eyes, I suppose that Sansa will eventually realize that it wasn't a good thing. I suppose that around this time Sansa's and LF's roles will switch and LF will become a POV character, while Sansa will be the master of schemes, secretly planning revenge. Eventually I can see Sansa arresting him and executing him, imitating Ned's execution. But, once again, curretly Sansa is very far from this kind of cold-bloodedness and cunning, she never even came close to it unlike, for example, Arya or Jon.

[Mikkel]

LF has always danced on the edge of a knife, it's only luck that has kept his head on his shoulders so far. I know he's a cautious cat, but still if you think about it, he really is running a risky game...

Here's a list of things we know he has done, any one of which could have easily ended with his death (or headlong flight):

1) Carrying on an illicit affair for years with the wife of the Hand of the King. Even if he wasn't actually stupid enough to physically have an affair (and I am of the opinion he didn't), there must have been letters, conversations, meetings, all of which could have been reported to Jon Arryn, who could have caught them at it, and/or decided to have LF stripped of power and sent packing.

2) Acquiring exotic poisons and convincing Lysa to use it on her husband. It ties into 1) above of course, but given its severity, it deserves its own entry

3) Sending secret and highly treasonous messages hidden within the King's own party. Admittedly the letter is in Lysa's name, so she would bear the brunt of the repercussions for it, but still - it could have come back to him

4) Lying about the origins of "Tyrion's" knife - if Cat and/or Ned had been smart enough to try and get the information verified, rather than just take LF's word for it, his whole scheme would have come crashing down on him

5) Sticking his head in affairs he had no business in, in a court ruled by first Joffrey and then Cersei, none of whom can be described as particularly stable.

6) Arranging the murder of King Joffrey - the Tyrells did most of it, true, but LF was involved

7) Smuggling Sansa out of King's Landing with the help of a drunken (if dispensable) fool, on the heels of Joffrey's death

8) Murdering the Lady of the Vale in her own home, in a region where he's not welcome and has little support. If only Bronze Yohn or one of his allies had been less crafty/honorable/gullible and a bit more volatile, LF would have been a goner, schemes or no schemes

I'm sure there's more.

My point is, for all his appearance of playing it cool and not taking chances, Petyr likes to play the game, and sooner or later one of his dice-throws is going to come up snake eyes, and then... it's (hopefully!) bye-bye Petyr. Oh, and I think (and hope) that Sansa will be the reason for his downfall, she has suffered much at his hands, without even knowing it.

I won't deny he has accomplished a lot, starting with relatively few resources (though don't get me started on the "self-made man" misconception), but the guy is a self-serving sociopath with very nearly no redeeming qualities, and has caused the downfall of too many men (and women) better than he, all because he didn't get to marry his boyhood crush (who never wanted him, btw). Boo-hoo, poor Petyr :ack:

[The Bastard of Walton]

His over confidence is his weakness & this will lead to his downfall.... Personally I want Sansa to be the one to bring him down

[ache]

I think his downfall will be a two-parter. First he'll lose his strong political position, probably due to Sansa being one of those pawns that have a will of their own, then before he can rebuild, he'll die. Hopefully at the hand of Lady Stoneheart.

[hodorisfaclessman]

would probably be his willingness to try his wit in battle.

Obviously we're all aware of how smart and cunning this guy is- but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would translate into tactical military brilliance.

Tywin Lannister was a wise and clever man- but proved to be an absolute failure in direct warfare.

He seems to be making moves with the soldiers of the Vale and I think this is the beginning of his downfall.

tywins record in warfare was actualy one of the better commanders in westeros , the rains of castermere, his brillant opening camapign subdueing the riverlands and moving to where he can meet the riverlands or the vale from a strong postion

his son badly screwed up from there and theres no shame in not being able to force the crossing in the riverlands ..overall hes one of the smarter battle commanders whos done wonders with some bad hands (jamie screwing up and robb having magic wolf powers allowing him to sneak into the westerlands)

Overall LF may not be too bad at warfare as a commander , look at tyrion.... never bothered with the stuff and led an amazing defence of KL

Overall like tyrion hes got a good strategic brain and as long as hes researched the subject and listens to those who know how(vale lords and his ever growing merc entourage) he could do just fine ......its just the actual personal one on one fighting hes prob not so hot with

besides a certain hot little redhead whos learning first hand how the game is played will be his downfall not some pitched battle

[Mikkel]

Tywin never really had a "bad hand" at any point in the war. He did reasonably well, but far from brilliant, and he got outwitted by Robb time and again. Tywin's true skills are politics and ruthlessness, and using the two of them together he managed to craft an image of himself that he actually failed to live up to when pressed.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Tywin never really had a "bad hand" at any point in the war. He did reasonably well, but far from brilliant, and he got outwitted by Robb time and again. Tywin's true skills are politics and ruthlessness, and using the two of them together he managed to craft an image of himself that he actually failed to live up to when pressed.

Id say hes an excellent commander his opening manuveres in the war show that, now robb did slip past him at green fork but you cant say jamie utterly screwing up in the riverlands or robbs wolf powers finding him a route through the golden tooth werent bad hands he got dealt and had to adjust too ..........and adjust he did quite well

[Mikkel]

Id say hes an excellent commander his opening manuveres in the war show that, now robb did slip past him at green fork but you cant say jamie utterly screwing up in the riverlands or robbs wolf powers finding him a route through the golden tooth werent bad hands he got dealt and had to adjust too ..........and adjust he did quite well

He also let Robb feint his way past him in the opening stages, and failed to capitalize on his advantages - it was luck and/or politics that secured the capital for the Lannisters, not military brilliance.