Jump to content

I Believe I May Have Discovered the Greatheart's Identity...


Likely Luke

Recommended Posts

...or at least a very compelling clue that I've never seen before.

Some may know that awhile ago I posted a topic discussing who the Greatheart might have been. Here is a link to it.

This is the one passage where the famous knight shows up:

Jaime had to smile.

“There’s none of that here, ser, but the histories will open your eyes. You would do well to know about the lives of those who went before.”

“I do. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Ryam Redwyne, the Greatheart, Barristan the Bold...”
“... Gwayne Corbray, Alyn Connington, the Demon of Darry, aye. You will have heard of Lucamore Strong as well.”
“Ser Lucamore the Lusty?” Ser Loras seemed amused. “Three wives and thirty children, was it? They cut his cock off. Shall I sing the song for you, my lord?”
“And Ser Terrence Toyne?”
“Bedded the king’s mistress and died screaming. The lesson is, men who wear white breeches need to keep them tightly laced.”
“Gyles Greycloak? Orivel the Open-Handed?”
“Gyles was a traitor, Orivel a coward. Men who shamed the white cloak. What is my lord suggesting?”
“Little and less. Don’t take offense where none was meant, ser. How about Long Tom Costayne?”
Ser Loras shook his head.
“He was a Kingsguard knight for sixty years.”
“When was that? I’ve never—”
“Ser Donnel of Duskendale, then?”
“I may have heard the name, but—”
“Addison Hill? The White Owl, Michael Mertyns? Jeffory Norcross? They called him Neveryield. Red Robert Flowers? What can you tell me of them?”
“Flowers is a bastard name. So is Hill.”
“Yet both men rose to command the Kingsguard. Their tales are in the book. Rolland Darklyn is in here too. The youngest man ever to serve in the Kingsguard, until me. He was given his cloak on a battlefield and died within an hour of donning it.”
“He can’t have been very good.”
“Good enough. He died, but his king lived. A lot of brave men have worn the white cloak. Most have been forgotten.”
“Most deserve to be forgotten. The heroes will always be remembered. The best.”
“The best and the worst.” So one of us is like to live in song. “And a few who were a bit of both. Like him.” He tapped the page he had been reading.
“Who?” Ser Loras craned his head around to see. “Ten black pellets on a scarlet field. I do not know those arms.”
“They belonged to Criston Cole, who served the first Viserys and the second Aegon.” Jaime closed the White Book. “They called him Kingmaker.”

-A Feast for Crows, Chapter 16, Jaime

I theorized that the man could have been a Corbray, Toyne, Staedmon. Others suggested an Oakheart.

Only moments ago, it hit me. What prominent Kingsguard figure is not featured in the quote above? None other than Arthur Dayne! First of all, Ser Dayne was considered chivalrous and was beloved by the smallfolk. But there is more than that.

Turn your attention to this passage in A Feast for Crows:

"There was an Arthur Dayne," Myrcella said. "He was a knight of the Kingsguard in the days of Mad King Aerys."

"He was the Sword of the Morning. He is dead."

"Are you the Sword of the Morning now?"

"No. Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night."

Arianne drew the child away. "You must be hungry. We have dates and cheese and olives, and lemonsweet to drink. You ought not eat or drink too much, though. After a little rest, we must ride. Out here on the sands it is always best to travel by night, before the sun ascends the sky. It is kinder to the horses."

"And the riders," Spotted Sylva said. "Come, Your Grace, warm yourself. I should be honored if you'd let me serve you."

As she led the princess to the fire, Arianne found Ser Gerold behind her. "My House goes back ten thousand years, unto the dawn of days," he complained. "Why is it that my cousin is the only Dayne that anyone remembers?"

"He was a great knight," Ser Arys Oakheart put in.

"He had a great sword," Darkstar said.

"And a great heart." Ser Arys took Arianne by the arm. "Princess, I beg a moment's word."

Interesting, isn't it? And in the same book as the first passage. Any thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think so...

Dayne was the Sword of the Morning (a title and a nickname), so I doubt he needs to be the Greatheart.

:agree:

The Greatheart sounds like a title and Arthur Dayne already has an awesome one. Why would he be recorded in the White Book as both the Sword of the Morning and the Greatheart?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the way you pulled those two lines together with the missing puzzle piece. I still think he's more likely to be a Toyne though. We've seen so msny references to Arthur, you'd think we would've heard the nickname by now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ser Arthur wouldnt be the first one to be known by multiple titles and honorifics.



"Daenerys Stormborn, the unburnt, breaker of chains and mother of dragons, Queen of the andals and the rhoynar and the blah blah blah...."



judging by his reputation, he certainly deserves a few more nicknames and it would be foolish to assume all of his exploits havent earned him some.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ser Arthur wouldnt be the first one to be known by multiple titles and honorifics.

"Daenerys Stormborn, the unburnt, breaker of chains and mother of dragons, Queen of the andals and the rhoynar and the blah blah blah...."

judging by his reputation, he certainly deserves a few more nicknames and it would be foolish to assume all of his exploits havent earned him some.

I see what you mean, maybe Arthur is best known as Sword of the Morning, but has other lesser titles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the idea of him being a toyne. It would make sense since there was the black heart toyne commanding the gold company. That could just be a coincidence though. I was hoping to get more KG white book history in the WoIaF when it came out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ser Arthur wouldnt be the first one to be known by multiple titles and honorifics.

"Daenerys Stormborn, the unburnt, breaker of chains and mother of dragons, Queen of the andals and the rhoynar and the blah blah blah...."

judging by his reputation, he certainly deserves a few more nicknames and it would be foolish to assume all of his exploits havent earned him some.

Arthur Dayne didn't need to hype himself and overly aggrandize his rep with a string of undeserved honorifics.

No, its someone else.

That would be like Bill Clinton being referred to as the former governor of Arkansas.

Once you are the sword of the morning, who needs other nick names?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arthur Dayne didn't need to hype himself and overly aggrandize his rep with a string of undeserved honorifics.

No, its someone else.

That would be like Bill Clinton being referred to as the former governor of Arkansas.

Once you are the sword of the morning, who needs other nick names?

Who said Arthur Dayne had anything to do with the hyping up? The smallfolk had that job I imagine, they're responsible for numerous historic nicknames and titles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arthur Dayne didn't need to hype himself and overly aggrandize his rep with a string of undeserved honorifics.

No, its someone else.

That would be like Bill Clinton being referred to as the former governor of Arkansas.

Once you are the sword of the morning, who needs other nick names?

The Sword of the Morning is not a nickname, it is a title. Arthur might not have been the first Sword of the Morning in the Kingsgaurd and he may not be the last.

The Greatheart could be a title just for him and not that he would share with every other Dayne who wielded Dawn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it possible he is a Staedmon? Their sigil features a heart.

In my original post, I proposed Staedmon as a potential House. I think it is less likely than Corbray and Toyne though.

I like the idea of him being a toyne. It would make sense since there was the black heart toyne commanding the gold company. That could just be a coincidence though. I was hoping to get more KG white book history in the WoIaF when it came out.

I a think a Toyne is very possible, they used to be fairly prominent family. I was really hoping for more kingsguard info as well... Maybe in a future book. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who said Arthur Dayne had anything to do with the hyping up? The smallfolk had that job I imagine, they're responsible for numerous historic nicknames and titles.

Yea, people don't give themselves nicknames unless there probably pretty arrogant. Like tyrion, for example, didn't ask to be called half man. If you run around saying" call me greatheart" then people will probably just call you douche. Lol

But I feel like if ser Arthur were greatheart, we would here the name more often. My guess is greatheart is from farther back in history.

An oakheart seems plausible. Considering heart is in there name, and when he's talking to Darkstar he says "Dayne has a great heart" . Maybe when he said that he was saying that's who Dayne is, but I find it more likely that he was subconsciously comparing Dayne to greatheart. Or maybe he was simply saying that Dayne is a good person, and we are just over analyzing things just like we always do in these forums lol. this is why we need a white book of our own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...