Up to this point, who has played the "Game" the best? Petyr 100%

[howardh51]

Watching the GOT marathon and watching Littlefinger convince the Tyrell's to flee after Renly's death...

There is just no other character who has gained more or who has out witted Petyr... He has absolutely gained the most in land and title - has out-foxed Tyrion, has gained an allies with the Tyrell family and now - is he gaining the North through Sansa....

After all Petyr really set this whole story in motion.... He has to sit the Iron Throne.

[Knight Of Winter]

Watching the GOT marathon and watching Littlefinger convince the Tyrell's to flee after Renly's death...

There is just no other character who has gained more or who has out witted Petyr... He has absolutely gained the most in land and title - has out-foxed Tyrion, has gained an allies with the Tyrell family and now - is he gaining the North through Sansa....

After all Petyr really set this whole story in motion.... He has to sit the Iron Throne.

Firstly, it's not advisable to use show to argue a point from the books. Show has already differed from the books on a number of occasions, including few very important ones.

Secondly, while LF is indeed a competent player, he has lucked out a number of times. I'll paste quotes from another thread.

1) Carrying on an illicit affair for years with the wife of the Hand of the King. Even if he wasn't actually stupid enough to physically have an affair (and I am of the opinion he didn't), there must have been letters, conversations, meetings, all of which could have been reported to Jon Arryn, who could have caught them at it, and/or decided to have LF stripped of power and sent packing.

2) Acquiring exotic poisons and convincing Lysa to use it on her husband. It ties into 1) above of course, but given its severity, it deserves its own entry

3) Sending secret and highly treasonous messages hidden within the King's own party. Admittedly the letter is in Lysa's name, so she would bear the brunt of the repercussions for it, but still - it could have come back to him

4) Lying about the origins of "Tyrion's" knife - if Cat and/or Ned had been smart enough to try and get the information verified, rather than just take LF's word for it, his whole scheme would have come crashing down on him

5) Sticking his head in affairs he had no business in, in a court ruled by first Joffrey and then Cersei, none of whom can be described as particularly stable.

6) Arranging the murder of King Joffrey - the Tyrells did most of it, true, but LF was involved

7) Smuggling Sansa out of King's Landing with the help of a drunken (if dispensable) fool, on the heels of Joffrey's death

8) Murdering the Lady of the Vale in her own home, in a region where he's not welcome and has little support. If only Bronze Yohn or one of his allies had been less crafty/honorable/gullible and a bit more volatile, LF would have been a goner, schemes or no schemes

Let me add 9) surviving Tyrion's tenure as acting Hand, despite the latter knowing about LF's dagger lie. This comes off as especially weird seeing how Tyrion has pretty vindictive personality and how Tywin directly ordered him to kill treasonous councilors.

[A horsefaced girl]

I would argue that Varys has had a much bigger hand in setting the story in motion. People could argue that Varys helped Aerys become the "Mad King". Little finger may have gotten rid of Joffery before Varys was ready to do that, but he quickly made up for it by putting the "Myrish Swamp Thing" next to Cersei's ear, whispering secrets, suggestions, and pushing her to certain actions, in affect creating the Mad King come again. My vote Varys

[Varysfan]

I would argue that Varys has had a much bigger hand in setting the story in motion. People could argue that Varys helped Aerys become the "Mad King". Little finger may have gotten rid of Joffery before Varys was ready to do that, but he quickly made up for it by putting the "Myrish Swamp Thing" next to Cersei's ear, whispering secrets, suggestions, and pushing her to certain actions, in affect creating the Mad King come again. My vote Varys

This!

Varys has been in control for a long time from the mad king all the way to killing Tywin and Kevan, I'm not even convinced he's really helping Illyrio 100%, I have a feeling he has an extra agenda and of course the whole bald head thing makes me suspicious every time I read D&E!

[nelsontropical]

Firstly, it's not advisable to use show to argue a point from the books. Show has already differed from the books on a number of occasions, including few very important ones.

Secondly, while LF is indeed a competent player, he has lucked out a number of times. I'll paste quotes from another thread.

But the flipside of this is these might have been calculated risks or that LF had backup plans in case any of those potential things happened to him. We've seen LF get into trouble, but he always weasels out of it. These could just be scenarios where he didn't have to because he planned things so well.

[LadyStoneHearte]

Its hard to say because what we usually hear about Littlefinger's plot comes from Littlefinger, and we all know that he think a lot of himself. Personally I think Varys is playing the game at a much larger scale than Littlefinger. I also think Doran Martell should not be underestimated. The thing about the Game of Thrones is that you never know who all the players are, and everyone thinks that they have the most clever plan.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I believe Varys plays the game better since the game of thrones seems to be ruling and having power. Varys is actively working to place someone on the throne he can manipulate. LF seems intent on creating havoc so he can disrupt power but doesn't seem to be actively trying to create it for himself or manipulate those who have it to do his bidding.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

Varys is the better player - LFs motivations are too obvious.

[Saint Saga]

The Great Other, he is just waiting the foolish "players" spent their armies, resources and then he will attack and destroy everything they know.

[Led]

Varys is the better player - LFs motivations are too obvious.

Really? Then what exactly are LFs motivations?

[JonisHenryTudor]

I would argue that Varys has had a much bigger hand in setting the story in motion. People could argue that Varys helped Aerys become the "Mad King". Little finger may have gotten rid of Joffery before Varys was ready to do that, but he quickly made up for it by putting the "Myrish Swamp Thing" next to Cersei's ear, whispering secrets, suggestions, and pushing her to certain actions, in affect creating the Mad King come again. My vote Varys

I say Vary's because he is an ambiguous player....

[-Leon]

Littlefinger is obviously a Targaryen and is going to sit the Iron Throne

[FC_Lymond]

The funny part is LF was in a great position at the start of the series. All his plots have done nothing for him.

[Anythingatall]

The funny part is LF was in a great position at the start of the series. All his plots have done nothing for him.

That's actually a really good point. He was already rich and powerful, I suppose it must be Sansa he wants.

[rayarts]

That's actually a really good point. He was already rich and powerful, I suppose it must be Sansa he wants.

Really? Isn't it obvious he wants the Iron Throne? He is not the kind of person to stop when he has "some", he wants it ALL.

However, he wants Sansa at his side, he cannot help it, I guess, because of Cat - and this will be his downfall.

Who plays the game the best? The puppetmasters: Varys, LF, Doran Martell - they are the puppetmasters and in their own league (Tywin has been one).

New puppetmaster in the making: Sansa Stark.

[Anythingatall]

Really? Isn't it obvious he wants the Iron Throne? He is not the kind of person to stop when he has "some", he wants it ALL.

However, he wants Sansa at his side, he cannot help it, I guess, because of Cat - and this will be his downfall.

I'm not sure how anything he has done has got him any closer to the Iron Throne, indeed it seems he has gotten further away from it. He's playing the same game in the Vale he played in Kings Landing only the Vale is in a lower division (My first ever sports reference!).

[FC_Lymond]

It's also that he could run circles around Bobby B's court. He could manipulate those guys so easily. And he got rid of all of them. Who at the next court in KL is gonna listen to this guy?

[Lyanna Stark]

Really? Isn't it obvious he wants the Iron Throne? He is not the kind of person to stop when he has "some", he wants it ALL.

However, he wants Sansa at his side, he cannot help it, I guess, because of Cat - and this will be his downfall.

That's from the show.

In the novels LF does not covet the Iron Throne, he wants wealth, connections and power, plus revenge on the Tullys and Starks and a Cat 2.0 for himself. He has so far showed no wish to be crowned king. Becoming Lord Paramount of the Riverlands was a nice feather in his hat though, since it made him supercede the Tullys. Especially since Hoster Tully once didn't think LF good enough to marry one of his daughters.

It's also that he could run circles around Bobby B's court. He could manipulate those guys so easily. And he got rid of all of them. Who at the next court in KL is gonna listen to this guy?

Bobby B is officially my new favourite nickname for King Robert Baratheon.

[Darkbringer]

The funny part is LF was in a great position at the start of the series. All his plots have done nothing for him.

Yes but he only got that power through plots and fraud and manipulating Lysa. Credit where credit is due.

[House Clark]

Have to admit that LF is probably the best GOT player about, really want him to die in TWOW, just because he brought about the deaths of Ned and Robb (inadvertently)