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Who is Quaithe? Ive read many theories but can't pin point


OceanRunner

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Most likely she is exactly what she appears to be: a shadowbinder from Asshai, like Melissandre.

If you want crackpot then Ashara Dayne is unlikely but possible, even less likely Tysha Lannister.

Don't forget Shiera Seastar.

Wow, i didnt think of them! I figured Ashara was Septa Lemore, but I think youre right in that she could just be a shadowbinder and not anyone we know.

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Very little sense in that, why would a Blackfyre be helping a Targaryen, even warning her of a Blackfyre coming to her (if "Mummer's dragon" refers to Faegon)? Unless we are moving into Dany not being Dany (Lemon tree).

1. Shiera is not a Blackfyre. She is the sister of some of them (Daemon I Blackfyre, Bittersteel). She is also the sister of Bloodraven. Is he a Blackfyre, as well? He fought them on the Targaryen side.

2. It's only a hypothesis (crackpot). I'm sceptic about it myself. I only put it out there as a possibility.

3. It is logically consistent. It was believed she practived practiced the dark arts (shadowbinder). She could be the equivalent of her brother Bloodraven. He guids Bran / Jon, she guids Dany.

4. And we have somewhat textual evidence. There are numerous "star" references about Quaithe. (Shiera Seastar).

She dreamed. All her cares fell away from her, and all her pains as well, and she seemed to float upward into the sky. She was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear. "To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

"Quaithe?" Dany called. "Where are you, Quaithe?" Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight. "Remember who you are, Daenerys," the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. "The dragons know. Do you?"

Again, just a hypothesis.

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1. Shiera is not a Blackfyre. She is the sister of some of them (Daemon I Blackfyre, Bittersteel). She is also the sister of Bloodraven. Is he a Blackfyre, as well? He fought them on the Targaryen side.

Can't be her bloodraven mentions that one of his ghosts was a women he desired this women is shiera seastar the word ghost sort of implies that she is dead

2. It's only a hypothesis (crackpot). I'm sceptic about it myself. I only put it out there as a possibility.

3. It is logically consistent. It was believed she practived practiced the dark arts (shadowbinder). She could be the equivalent of her brother Bloodraven. He guids Bran / Jon, she guids Dany.

4. And we have somewhat textual evidence. There are numerous "star" references about Quaithe. (Shiera Seastar).

Again, just a hypothesis.

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Can't be her bloodraven mentions that one of his ghosts was a women he desired this women is shiera seastar the word ghost sort of implies that she is dead

So, because a statement from Bloodraven could be read in such a way as to imply that he thinks she's dead, it "can't be her"? As in "no way"?

Guys, I swear, sometimes I lose my faith in humanity when I'm on here... Nuance. Learn it. Here is how you could have written this post:


Bloodraven mentions that one of his ghosts was a women he desired. This women is very probably Shiera Seastar. Here is the actual quote from the text:

"You cannot speak to him, try as you might. I know. I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them."

The word "ghosts" could be interpreted as to imply that BR thinks she's dead. However, it could also be read in such a way as to imply that he believes she's dead while she's still alive without his knowledge. Or it could be read in such a way as to imply that he only thinks she's far away and out of his reach, but very much alive. "Ghosts" as in memories that haunt him, without necessarily being dead. Just something worth considering.


BTW, another argument against this hypothesis is the fact that Dany never mentions Quaithe's eyes, despite Shiera Seastar having mismatched eyes (one green, one blue) which are very noticeable. However, this information simply might have been omitted on purpose by the author as to not give a too obvious clue for a later reveal. Or, it could be that Quaithe's eyes beneath her mask are heavily shadowed (narrow eye slits) and therefore not very easy to see, especially the differences in eye color.

Another argument for the hypothesis is this quote right here, from the Dunk & Egg novellas:

"Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven's paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty."

This could be interpreted as to imply that Shiera uses blood magic to keep herself young. It would explain how she would have been able to still be alive, as well as Bloodraven, who merges into the weirwood tree to preserve his life a little longer.

Again, I don't subscribe to the theory. I'm sceptic in nature. I'm just telling you that there are arguments for it. :) And against.

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BTW, another argument against this hypothesis is the fact that Dany never mentions Quaithe's eyes, despite Shiera Seastar having mismatched eyes (one green, one blue) which are very noticeable. However, this information simply might have been omitted on purpose by the author as to not give a too obvious clue for a later reveal. Or, it could be that Quaithe's eyes beneath her mask are heavily shadowed (narrow eye slits) and therefore not very easy to see, especially the differences in eye color.

Then why would Grrm make Shiera have mismatched eyes -- if they were then going to be troublesome to the point he's verging on dishonesty when describing Quaithe? Why make the mask cover her entire face save the eyes?

The books are written in limited third person, but the limitation comes via limits to memory access (Ned not thinking of Jon's parents) -- it's a totally different ball game to actually have a POV describe a characters eyes and not mention there's something seriously remarkable about them.

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Again, I don't subscribe to the theory. I'm sceptic in nature. I'm just telling you that there are arguments for it. :) And against.

I'm with you. I've always thought IF Quaithe turns out to be someone else then it's Shiera Seastar...mainly due to the symmetry you mentioned in Bloodraven guiding Bran and Shiera guiding Dany (although, if that's the case then Bloodraven is doing a much better job ;) ).

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Very little sense in that, why would a Blackfyre be helping a Targaryen, even warning her of a Blackfyre coming to her (if "Mummer's dragon" refers to Faegon)? Unless we are moving into Dany not being Dany (Lemon tree).

She wasn't a Blackfyre. The only Great Bastard who was a Blackfyre was Daemon. Bittersteel was Aegor Rivers, and Bloodraven was Brynden Rivers. Shiera Seastar, one of three female great bastards, was Bloodraven's paramour. (The other two were his sisters.)
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[snip]

[...] it's a totally different ball game to actually have a POV describe a characters eyes and not mention there's something seriously remarkable about them.

This is something I've wondered myself. The description is in Daenerys III, ACOK:

Dany had not noticed Quaithe in the crowd, yet there she stood, eyes wet and shiny behind the implacable red lacquer mask.

Yet, if I'm continuing to play devil's advocate here, I don't think we can entirely rule out the point I made previously: IF your eyes are deeply hidden behind a mask and IF the eye slits are relatively narrow, you might be able to distinguish features such as "wet and shiny", as in "I could just see enough to see a little bit of light reflected from her eyeballs." But MAYBE, just MAYBE, you wouldn't be able to see a person's eye color, because there's not enough light to differentiate color, as in "All cats are grey by night." :dunno:

ETA: I'm AFK for now. It's already 4am over here...

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Shiera seems like the best option, eye problem notwithstanding.

If she is indeed helping Dany, it means she chose the Targ side, and therefore Bloodraven. But if the theories about her having more sinister intentions and trying to drive Dany insane or mislead her somehow are true, it could mean she decided to fight that Bittersteel started

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Whoever she is,she needs to cut the shit and get to the fuckin point.say what you meen woman!if Danny should be wary of aegon then say be wary of aegon not a fuckin mummers Dragon,Jesus imagine some mummer turns up in the hope of entertaining her with his Dragon show?slap kick punch" what the fuck lady,jeez"

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So, because a statement from Bloodraven could be read in such a way as to imply that he thinks she's dead, it "can't be her"? As in "no way"?

Guys, I swear, sometimes I lose my faith in humanity when I'm on here... Nuance. Learn it. Here is how you could have written this post:


Bloodraven mentions that one of his ghosts was a women he desired. This women is very probably Shiera Seastar. Here is the actual quote from the text:

The word "ghosts" could be interpreted as to imply that BR thinks she's dead. However, it could also be read in such a way as to imply that he believes she's dead while she's still alive without his knowledge. Or it could be read in such a way as to imply that he only thinks she's far away and out of his reach, but very much alive. "Ghosts" as in memories that haunt him, without necessarily being dead. Just something worth considering.


BTW, another argument against this hypothesis is the fact that Dany never mentions Quaithe's eyes, despite Shiera Seastar having mismatched eyes (one green, one blue) which are very noticeable. However, this information simply might have been omitted on purpose by the author as to not give a too obvious clue for a later reveal. Or, it could be that Quaithe's eyes beneath her mask are heavily shadowed (narrow eye slits) and therefore not very easy to see, especially the differences in eye color.

Another argument for the hypothesis is this quote right here, from the Dunk & Egg novellas:

This could be interpreted as to imply that Shiera uses blood magic to keep herself young. It would explain how she would have been able to still be alive, as well as Bloodraven, who merges into the weirwood tree to preserve his life a little longer.

Again, I don't subscribe to the theory. I'm sceptic in nature. I'm just telling you that there are arguments for it. :) And against.

Uh because Bloodraven can know effectively EVERYTHING. He is easily the most powerful magic user we see in the series and even in the history of WOIAF. Only the children's collected power was enough to overshadow what he has been shown to be capable of.

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