Tktkana Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hello westerosi people!! Okay so I'm new here and I'm not sure if this has already been discussed, but when this idea came bursting in my head after the second run through the books and a lot of reading from awoiaf I was too exited to go through the previous topics.So we all know about the prophesies concerning Azor Ahai and the prince that was promised. We also know that maestor Aemon was certain that Danaerys is the princess that was promised and that everyone was expecting a prince due to a translation error (since it was translated from Valyrion and dragons are neither male nor female). His poor old heart breaks because he is too old to join and guide her as well as her being the last Targareon when the "dragon will have three heads". In the other prophecy, Azor Ahai is born amidst smoke and salt. Azor Ahai sacrificed his beloved wife to complete the forging of Lightbringer, and there is mention that when Azor Ahai slashed an enemy with his sword the enemy would burst into flame. Here's the theory for Danaerys, she was reborn amidst smoke and salt when she walked in the fire, she sacrificed her sun and stars (Khal Drogo), and from the fire came the dragons. I believe the dragons are Lightbringer, and that lightbringer was never supposed to be a sword in the first place. Melisandre said it herself: "When the red star bleeds and darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake the dragons out of stone." The last six words prove this theory, in addition to the red comet that came after she roasted herself. In a Dance with Dragons we find out that Aegon son of Rhaegar is still alive. A Targareon from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, not to mention that his father was certain that he was the prince that was promised (His is the song of ice and fire).Now for the third part. We all know the R+L=J theory. What if this turns out to be true, the pieces will fit perfectly together. Jon is the third dragon, and the prophecy is completed. When he was stabbed, smoke came out of his wounds, whcih might relate to the prophecy. Moreover, if this theory turns out to be true, The blood of Starks and the blood of the Targaryens might be the song of Ice and fire. Same as with Danaerys, Melisandre says something that makes me fairly convinced that Jon is part of the prophecy: "I pray for a glympse of Azor Ahai and R'hollar shows me only Snow." R'hollar IS showing her Azor Ahai, but like Melisandre says quite often that people who read the prophecies usually make mistakes. So she in her thick head still believes Stannis (wtf right?) is Azor Ahai. Now for the most interesting part, Dany has three dragons. Dany, Aegon, and Jon are the three from the prophecy that will save the world from the eternal darkness, and like Aegon the conqueror and his two sisters, their weapon will be the dragons, Lightbringer, and they will ride them into battle against the Others. Now this all sounds so interesting and these theories have some holes in them but hopefully with the minds and knowledge of many people here we can either fill the holes or disprove this theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_sabouni Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 This theory is by far the most interesting theory I've read in a long time. But like you said, there are some holes. To begin with, Jon carries no resemblance what so ever to the Targaryen bloodline, he has black hair and brown eyes. If his parents were truely Lyanna and Rhaegar, he would resemble Rhaegar even a little, since the Targaryen features are very strong. Like you said, the prophecy says that the dragon has three heads, and Daenerys will definitely be a dragonrider, most probably Drogon's rider. Alongside, she is the unburnt, which means she will be able to use the dragon horn, something no one but herself has the ability to do. Aegon will also be a dragon rider, and possibly use Rhaegon, since it's named after his father. This leaves us with Viseryon, and I think the third dragon rider might possibly be Tyrion Lannister, since there are a lot of links connecting Tyrion to his love of dragons and his father's hatred towards him. If however, Jon is really a Targaryen, then he would definitely be more likely to be the prince that was promised, and not Aegon. The fact that he is a Stark and could have a Targaryen father makes the song of ice and fire prophecy suit him best. Aegon could be a huge distraction for all the readers to believe he is the prince that was promised. In Dany'e prophecy is the house of the undying, she sees Rhaegar and Elia holding baby Aegon, and Rhaegar says that the dragon has three heads and the third child must be born. It could be that Rhagar's third child is really Jon, and that he is the last head of the dragon. I have a lot of thoughts that I could discuss, ready to hear more comments and questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make Shadowbabies Not War Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 This is what I initially thought may happen, and I think quite a few people are thinking along the same lines. I guess my biggest problem is that I think it seems too 'easy' for the three of them to come together and save the world, if that makes sense. I'm not saying it won't happen, and indeed it could very well do so, I just doubt it will be as smooth as it sounds. Also, as you said, there are many holes that seem to crop up. As to being a 'head of the dragon'.I agree with your point about Dany, it isn't hard to figure out she is one of the heads of he dragon after all. Aegon is more difficult, because he doesn't appear to actually be Aegon Targaryan. However, whilst Aegon doesn't appear to be legitimate, if his proposed (I SAID PROPOSED) Blackfyre heritage turns out to be true, he could still qualify as a 'dragon'. Therefore, I am among the camp that feels Aegon may be one of the 3 heads, should it turn out Targaryan blood is actually needed. In all honesty, my biggest problem with this idea is actually Jon. I know that he is almost definitely Rhaegar's son (although I do think him to be a bastard), he doesn't seem to resemble his 'dragon' side at all. Indeed, he appears to be more wolf than dragon, as it were. I agree that his death may change him, but if (and again, I'm going on what theory I believe) he does warg into Ghost he will come back even more wolfish, going by what we know of wargs. So I guess that this rests entirely on what finding out who his parents are affects him, and whether he can accept his Targaryan heritage a lot more quickly than Dany accepted hers. Because quite frankly, I currently see him as embodying ice more than he does fire. As to whether they will fight the Others together.The main problem with this theory, for me, is the idea that they will fight the Others together. We know that there will be another Dance of Dragons, just like we are very confident that Jon is of Targaryan descent and quite sure Aegon is fake. Once all of this gets out, I can't see them agreeing to fight together. If I read the end of ADWD correctly, I'd say that Dany wants her throne now, no matter what. She won't give it up because her father had a son on another woman, nor will she accept this 'mummer's dragon'. They will both seem as much an usurper than Stannis is. Likewise, Aegon will be in the position of power upon her return, why would he give it up? He has the bargaining high ground. Admittedly, Aegon is more easily argued for, as Dany may still have a dragon left to barter with. How many dragons she'll have left is another issue, as Victarion seems like he'll be successful in taking one from her, whether he gets to keep it himself or not. How will Jon ride on a dragon that belongs to Euron Greyjoy, for example? Finally you get Jon. He is definitely the most likely to want to fight the others out of the three, but I am unsure as to how he will obtain, or perhaps more importantly become, a dragon. So yeah, that is my view, I'll be interested in what you have to say. It is true that these problems could be sorted out in the next two books, but it seems to me that some character will need to drastically change in a very short space of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tktkana Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 This theory is by far the most interesting theory I've read in a long time. But like you said, there are some holes. To begin with, Jon carries no resemblance what so ever to the Targaryen bloodline, he has black hair and brown eyes. If his parents were truely Lyanna and Rhaegar, he would resemble Rhaegar even a little, since the Targaryen features are very strong. A Targaryen with no Targaryen features is not unprecedented. In "The Hedge Knight" the adventures of Duncan the Tall and Aegon "Egg" Targaryen, Prince Baelor "Breakspear" Targaryen, the heir to his father's throne King Daeron II, is described as having his mother's Martell features and none of his father's Targaryen looks. Furthermore, Robert Baratheon's maternal grandmother was also a Targaryen yet her blood had no effect over her Baratheon descendants which all had strong Baratheon feautures (Hair as dark as midnight and strikingly blue eyes). Orys Baratheon, Robert's ancesstor and the founder of house baratheon, was a bastard brother to Aegon the conqueror yet he had the same Baratheon looks that endured over the centuries. Also, Quentin Martell has an ancestor that was a Targaryen (Danaerys Targaryen) and yet neither he nor his father or uncle has any Targaryen looks whatsoever. So as you see here having a Targaryen parent of ancestor does not necessarily mean that the Targaryen features will be passed along. It is possible that George RR Martin intentionally makes this apparent if the theory of Jon is true. Regarding Tyrion Lannister being one of the dragons is very unlikely. One prophecy that was foretold in Summerhall states that the prince that was promised will be from the line of Aerys II and his Queen Rhaenys. If Tyrion is truly a Targaryen bastard, he would be the result of the Mad King raping Joanna Lannister excluding Rhaenys from the equation which would make remove Tyrion from being a candidate for the prophecies fulfillment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Aegon is not a Targ, and he gonna die screaming sooo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYStars Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't believe for one moment that Young Griff is Rhaegar's son Aegon. If this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tktkana Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Aegon is not a Targ, and he gonna die screaming sooo...As far as we know, Aegon can be anyone, as well as a Targaryen. His age seems right, and his true hair color, and the color of his eyes are indicators that he has Targaryen blood, or at least blood from old Valyria. Myself, I am inclined to believe he is Aegon the son of Rhaegar. The reason being that George RR Martin is the master of surprise and if he planned to expose Aegon as a fraud at some point, he would have made Aegon look as much as the real deal as possible and then suddenly and without a warning expose him for who he is. The single fact that George planted doubts here and there about Aegon's identity implies that Aegon is the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make Shadowbabies Not War Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As far as we know, Aegon can be anyone, as well as a Targaryen. His age, his true hair color, and the color of his eyes are indicators that he has Targaryen blood, or at least blood from old Valyria. Myself, I am inclined to believe he is Aegon the son of Rhaegar. The reason being that George RR Martin is the master of surprise and if he planned to expose Aegon as a fraud at some point, he would have made Aegon look as much as the real deal as possible and then suddenly and without a warning expose him for who he is. The single fact that George planted doubts here and there about Aegon's identity implies that Aegon is the real deal. I see your point. but if you don't mind, may I ask that if not Aegon, what would Dany's vision where 'A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd' mean? Especially as we are told this is a lie Dany must 'slay'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_sabouni Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I understand where you are coming from Tktana, there can only be one Azor Ahai and the fact that the dragons will have three heads cannot be disputed. The theories answer the question of who will ride the dragons and which dragon rider will be Azor Ahai. Thus far the theory is, that due to the "lack of gender" argument Daenarys could well be the Azor Ahai reborn. Also Maester Aeomon's dying words assure us of that. Azor Ahai plunged a sword into his wife in order to take out lightbringer. Daenerys Targaryen's gullibility lead to the death of her beloved husband and she walked into the flames with him and the Maegi tied up. She was reborn in smoke and salt with three dragons suckling on her teets. That leaves Viserion's and Rhaegon's rider which I am not sure of. With suspicions of Jon "Targaryen" Snow and Aegon "Blackfyre" Targaryen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 a_sabouni, I never connected Dany as Unburnt with blowing Euron's horn without issue, I like it haha. Im personally not sold on Aegon, I just don't like the idea of one of the most important people to the series (a head of the dragon) popping up with no foreshadowing in the second half of the series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tktkana Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I see your point. but if you don't mind, may I ask that if not Aegon, what would Dany's vision where 'A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd' mean? Especially as we are told this is a lie Dany must 'slay'.In this you have me at a corner. The evidence suggests that Aegon is not who he says he is. Also Quaithe said not to trust "the mummer's dragon" as well as the sun's son, the griffin and the lion, etc... Varys was a mummer, and Aegon is his Dragon. However Quaithe does not tell Dany not to trust any of them from fear of betrayal, but for some other reason that I am yet to understand, because the "Sun's Son" AKA Quentin Martell loved dany even before he ever set eyes on her and wouod never betray her (the fit of madness that led him to release the dragons was to prove himself in Dany's eyes and also because he thought it necessary at the time. Yet, the cloth dragon might actually not mean a false dragon, it might actually mean a banner with a dragon on it and the cheers might be cheers of victory. This might signify that Aegon will win a vicotory and his men will cheer for him. In the end of A Dance with Dragons Aegon tells Griff that he will lead the battle against Storm's End himself. This prophecy might mean he will be victorious and if so, he will have more power in the seven kingdoms, which will mean a problem for Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Only the PtwP needs to come from Rhaella and Aerys' line, not the 2 other heads. And the PtwP is Jon, not Dany IMO: Promise me Ned, promise me...Jon is the prince that was promised. And despite all the theories around, the 3 heads of the dragon point at 3 "dragons" (legitimate Targs or not) like Aegon I and his 2 sisters, i.e. 3 dragon riders. The clues for A+J=T, the heavy foreshadowing of his riding Viserion or being himself a dragon (dreams, hair, casting a large shadow, main POV of a Dance With Dragons, Moqorro's vision...) explain why Tyrion is so widely believed to be the 3rd head (Dany being cert 2nd one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Only the PtwP needs to come from Rhaella and Aerys' line, not the 2 other heads. And the PtwP is Jon, not Dany IMO: Promise me Ned, promise me...Jon is the prince that was promised. And despite all the theories around, the 3 heads of the dragon point at 3 "dragons" (legitimate Targs or not) like Aegon I and his 2 sisters, i.e. 3 dragon riders. The clues for A+J=T, the heavy foreshadowing of his riding Viserion or being himself a dragon (dreams, hair, casting a large shadow, main POV of a Dance With Dragons, Moqorro's vision...) explain why Tyrion is so widely believed to be the 3rd head (Dany being cert 2nd one). I dont believe Tyrion's dragon dreams and interest in dragons make him a Targ He was an outcast black sheep child he took to books and enjoyed reading about dragons (like a lot of young boys... or dinosaurs for real young boys) He dreams of being a dragon and flying etc to be free from his life he is small and weak especially when young so he dreams of being powerful ... whats more powerful than a dragon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco_Dracul Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Aegon is not a Targ, and he gonna die screaming sooo... I'm going to say that due to narrative irony his success will be inversely proportional to how real he is. A real Aegon or a Blackfyre Aegon will die screaming with the latter maybe holding the throne briefly. Some random guy that looks Targaryen might actually be king at the end. Given that this is The Song of Ice and Fire, and Jon is the son of a Targaryen and a Stark, I'd say he's the Dragon with three heads. Jon The Bastard, the man he thought he was. Jon the Lord Commander, the man he chose to be. Jon The Prince, the man he is by birth and the one the world needs. I'm probably wrong though. His age seems right, and his true hair color, and the color of his eyes are indicators that he has Targaryen blood, or at least blood from old Valyria. Not necessarily, the Daynes have the same eye coloration despite being primarily of First Men stock and white hair does crop up in the line as it did with both Arthur and Darkstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I dont believe Tyrion's dragon dreams and interest in dragons make him a Targ He was an outcast black sheep child he took to books and enjoyed reading about dragons (like a lot of young boys... or dinosaurs for real young boys) He dreams of being a dragon and flying etc to be free from his life he is small and weak especially when young so he dreams of being powerful ... whats more powerful than a dragon? Fair enough - you might want to check this thread though :cool4: : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/125646-ajt-v-3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tktkana Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Only the PtwP needs to come from Rhaella and Aerys' line, not the 2 other heads. And the PtwP is Jon, not Dany IMO: Promise me Ned, promise me...Jon is the prince that was promised. And despite all the theories around, the 3 heads of the dragon point at 3 "dragons" (legitimate Targs or not) like Aegon I and his 2 sisters, i.e. 3 dragon riders. The clues for A+J=T, the heavy foreshadowing of his riding Viserion or being himself a dragon (dreams, hair, casting a large shadow, main POV of a Dance With Dragons, Moqorro's vision...) explain why Tyrion is so widely believed to be the 3rd head (Dany being cert 2nd one).About Dany not being the Princess that was promised. Dany is daughter of Aerys and Rhaella which makes her qualified, when you weigh in the other clues, it becomes a certainty (all mentioned in the topic and comments above )And Tyrion being the third head, read one of my above comments where it explained why it can't be tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Fair enough - you might want to check this thread though :cool4: : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/125646-ajt-v-3/ I've been through some of it before and I understand the argument I just don't agree with it. I think Tyrion being a product of the rape of Joanna gives Tywin some legitimacy for being such a prick to him (I don't agree with it but I understand it) It also weakens Tyrion's arc and development if Tywin is not his father in my opinion. IF Tyrion ends up being a Targ it will come out of left field for most readers especially if Jon is, atleast his parentage has been in question the entire series. I think GRRM puts in a lot of red herrings because he knows how much analysis goes into his works by hardcore fans like us. I mean just look at how many characters can seen as born/reborn in salt and smoke for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 OP I agree with your interpretations of the three heads Being Dany(Head of the Eastern army), Aegon(Soon to be King & head of Westeros) & Jon Snow(Head of the Nights Watch). Aegon being a Blackfyre doesn't matter either way Red or Black, he is a Dragon.As for AA, I'm still a believer that it is both Jon & Dany, but AA,TPTWP & LH could cover the three you mentioned, hopefully we will find out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (...)Regarding Tyrion Lannister being one of the dragons is very unlikely. One prophecy that was foretold in Summerhall states that the prince that was promised will be from the line of Aerys II and his Queen Rhaenys. If Tyrion is truly a Targaryen bastard, he would be the result of the Mad King raping Joanna Lannister excluding Rhaenys from the equation which would make remove Tyrion from being a candidate for the prophecies fulfillment.I never said I believed tPtwP was Tyrion, just that Tyrion will be a dragonrider and therefore one of the 3 heads. In order to achieve that he only needs to be a dragonseed, not a Aerys and Rhaella's descendant. Or maybe Johanna and Rhaegar... not unlike Cersei and Lancel? :eek: About Dany not being the Princess that was promised. Dany is daughter of Aerys and Rhaella which makes her qualified, when you weigh in the other clues, it becomes a certainty (all mentioned in the topic and comments above )And Tyrion being the third head, read one of my above comments where it explained why it can't be tyrion. Well, what is a certainty for you certainly is not for many members of this forum. It is widely accepted for instance that AA and tPtwP are the same person, but prophesied by different religions. And as you state in your OP, Melissandre's visions pretty much point at Jon. You may want to browse these...http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79816-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up/http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/86094-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up-part-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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