Relic Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So GRRM came out and made a rather baffling (and in my mind twat-ish) statement about spoilers, as I'm sure many of you already know. "This whole concept of spoilers is one that I've never gotten," he says. "Yes, there's a pleasure when you're reading a book, or watching a television show — What will happen next? Who will win? Who will lose? But that is by no means the only reason to watch a movie or a television show. It's not the only reason to read a book." "I read a lot of historical fiction, you know? I know who won the Civil War — it's not a spoiler to me. But I can still enjoy Gettysburg, even though I know how the battle came out. I can still enjoy historical fiction about the Wars of the Roses, even though I know who won the Wars of the Roses. And for that matter, I still enjoy watching Citizen Kane every few years even though I know 'Rosebud' is the sled. So there — I just gave a terrible spoiler to all the people who haven't seen Citizen Kane. Rosebud is the sled, but nonetheless, you should still watch Citizen Kane, because it's incredible!" So what do you all think of this? Is he right? Wrong? Or does he really mean to say "I don't care about spoilers in the context of HBO spoiling my book series because I'm making millions of dollars, bitches!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Spoilers don't bother me- never have. If I don't want to know something, there are ways to keep from it. And Martin has a point- if you only read a book or watch a show for the SHOCKING moments, then it's not well done. I've read plenty of books (ASOIAF included) after having watched a tv show, movie or play based on it, and it didn't keep me from enjoying them at all. Movies and TV shows are great for visual moments...books are great for filling in the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 GRRM and peterbound are wrong.I mean, it's a perfectly valid view to have regarding your own viewing/reading, but it doesn't mean you have to insist that everyone else thinks the same way. The thing is, if you can get something else out of a story when you know the end, you can always watch it or read it again, but the other way, obviously, doesn't go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 He's certainly correct about there being other reasons to read, but one of the biggest draws of ASoIaF is that it's extremely difficult to predict what will happen next - you only need to glance at the book forum to realise this - and I do think my enjoyment of the books will be lessened -perhaps significantly - because I will largely know what is going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Well of course that should not be the only reason, and for most people, it is NOT the only reason. It's quite a leap, however, to go from that position to saying that you don't understand why someone might get pissed off at someone else telling them the ending to a book series, or revealing a plot point they would have preferred to reach on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leofric Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 GRRM is just saying HBO is going to tell you how ASOIAF ends before he does, but please still buy the books when they come out because they will still be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I hate being spoiled, and very much appreciate the board policy of no spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think it's a bizarre comment coming from a guy who has woven probably half a dozen or more ongoing mysteries plus a bunch of shocking reveals and turns of events already into his series- presumably he wrote these things with the intent of keeping readers eager for delayed reveals, and to have them experience surprise at certain turns. Anyway, I completely disagree with him, anticipation and unexpected reveals are a big part of storytelling. Sure, it's not all of it- or else no one would reread/rewatch anything- but there's a special enjoyment to not knowing what will happen, to reading on late into the night because you have to find out, to being surprised. So I avoid spoilers as much as I can, which normally isn't a problem except for really popular things like GoT or Citizen Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Personally I don't mind being spoiled at all. Knowing how something ends or what happens is pretty low on the list of reasons that I read or watch something. But at the same time, I absolutely understand that for most people this isn't the case and that finding out what happens is and keeping it a surprise is pretty much a major thrill / reason to experience a story, so I can appreciate the need to not be spoiled. But, yeah, if you told me right now how ASoIaF ended I seriously doubt it would diminish my enjoyment of either the TV show or the books they started making based on the TV show. I just hope HBO is making money off these books, it's crazy to think that they'd just let some guy turn their show into a bunch of books that stray from the source material and take so many liberties with the show. But seriously, TLDR; spoilers don't bother me at all but I do understand why they people. In a few genres/types of story, I think they are more of an issue, like someone mentioned in a 'whodunnit' like the Usual Suspects or an Agatha Christie book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah, I agree with PG here, and as this thread shows, we get different things out of the books we read. Obviously I'm not reading these books just to see how it ends, but it's certainly one of the reasons I'm reading them. I read the A Song of Ice and Fire books in a vacuum, and in a space of 4 or 5 months, I finished all of them. That initial reaction to a twist/ reveal is something I enjoy a lot. Spoilers for A Dance With Dragons For example, I still vividly remember my initial reaction to seeing Reek/ Theon in ADWD. The show does not give us those kinds of moments ( I had assumed he was dead) For me, I think it's fairly show/ book specific. I wouldn't mind at all if someone spoiled Mad Men for me, because it's not that sort of show. Edit: Only took me about 4 tries to get that spoiler tab up, jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm weird in that on one hand; I don't really care about being spoiled - I am still going to enjoy whatever I'm reading/watching but on the other hand...I really, really do love being surprised and having OMG WTF moments that I might otherwise have been spoiled on. I also think people who spoil others on purpose are deliberately being malicious assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I genuinely just got spoiled for Citizen Kane. You know, I really have stopped caring about the wait for TWoW, but that's just uncool Mr. Martin. That whole perspective is flawed. Yeah, I re-read books and read historical fiction, that doesn't justify spoilers at all. It's completely idiotic to act like all joy resides in the telling of the story and none whatsoever in the reveal of plot twists etc, and frankly it's a dickhead move to spoil stuff when you know others feel that way. Uh, Martin ISN'T giving anything away. He hasn't spoiled anything. He's just realizing the reality of the situation and trying to assure people that the world is not, in fact, ending, simply because the show will be the first to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm not too hurt by spoilers, although I'm not really fond of them either. If the work in question is more than 5 years old, I think we ought to not worry about spoiler warnings at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Spoilers don't bother me too much, to be honest. I don't really like historical fiction, but I do see where GRRM is coming from. If you don't know the ending, you read with the question in your mind "where is it going from here?" If you do know the ending, you can read with the question in your mind "How did we get here?" I generally find that most fiction is largely predictable, perhaps not the small details, but the broad strokes and character arcs, which is what you would expect from a logically coherent story, IMO, which also contributes to my view of spoilers as not being a major issue (for me.) ASOIAF is less predictable than most books, but I was spoiled on Robb's death before I had read that far, and I can't say it diminished my enjoyment of the books. It may however have prevented my from becoming too attached to Robb, so that's an interesting question: To what extent do spoilers change the way you experience the story? Having said all that, I also completely understand people who don't like spoilers, and I think it's interesting that GRRM chose to make those comments, as I assume he would have known it would be like stirring up a beehive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Actually, he did spoil Citizen Kane. But in any case, I did not say he did. I said it was a dickhead move to spoil things when you know other people don't like spoilers, which I think is sufficiently contrary to what Martin said ''So there — I just gave a terrible spoiler to all the people who haven't seen Citizen Kane. Rosebud is the sled, but nonetheless, you should still watch Citizen Kane, because it's incredible.'' which seems to make light of the act, without actually saying he is a dickhead - as Citizen Kane is an analogy, obviously. Oh, come on. Seriously? Animaniacs 'spoiled' Citizen Kane for me when I was like, 12 years old. It's just part of pop culture that Rosebud is a sled. Don't believe me? It was in the OPENING CREDITS SCENE. http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/74/79/2566f7db80a43d0ca0ae268a3cbdabd5-10-things-you-saw-parodied-a-million-times-before-you-knew-what-they-w.jpg Did that stop me from liking Citizen Kane when I eventually watched it? Hell, no. But anyone that touchy about spoilers from movies made in 1941 (over 70 years ago) perhaps should be investing time in watching said movies instead of criticizing people for using them as examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 There is no experience exactly like reading the Red Wedding for the first time. Once you know what is going to happen, it changes the experience forever. Taking away from someone the genuine unspoiled experience is a crime and a punch in the face is far too lenient a punishment for that crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 When he says spoilers don't matter he could have maybe included a spoiler of his own work (and not a GOT one - unless it hasn't aired on the show)? Maybe some creators don't like the work being spoiled irrespective of how the viewer/reader feels about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Personally I hate spoilers. I want to experience the book / movie for myself as it progresses. I don't want to hear someone else's biased view on what they read or saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooog Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The journey is the fun part of a book / telly but pre knowledge of spoilers, well, spoil that journey. If I was told that Tyrion dies in tWoW then every one of his chapters would have a lesser experience, because i'll constantly be looking out for signs, cues or any little clue that points towards his known demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 There is no experience exactly like reading the Red Wedding for the first time. Once you know what is going to happen, it changes the experience forever. Taking away from someone the genuine unspoiled experience is a crime and a punch in the face is far too lenient a punishment for that crime. I am glad I wasn't spoiled on that one to be honest. Absolutely floored me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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