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House Lannister of Winterfell?


Sleipnir1102

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So Tywin made Tyrion marry Sansa so the Lannisters could claim Winterfell and the North. But after Joffrey is poisoned, Tyrion's arrest and Sansa's disappearance, the Lannisters lose that claim correct?



Looking back at the Tyrion/Sansa marriage, it got me thinking, would a House Lannister of Winterfell with Tyrion as its lord actually survive? It would be purely Lannister dominated, the child would a Lannister and the lion banner would fly over Winterfell. All the Northerners hate the Lannisters, except for the Boltons.



Would a Lannister regime over the North work or was that a massive political error on Tywin's part?


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It has long been said this series reflects British history. If it is true, than the Lannisters hold the title to Winterfell. If Sansa is indeed the heir, and she is an attainted traitor to the crown, the crown, therefore has the right to seize her property. It is the property of King Tommen at this point, held by that blistering boil known as Ramsay.


Will they get it back? Probably.


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Chances are someone would've poisoned Tyrion's wine and a Manderly or an Umber would've then married Sansa and take over the North.

This...

Tyrion rapes Sansa.

Sansa gets pregnant.

Sansa gives birth to a child.

Tywin kills Sansa.

Tyrion takes child to WF.

Someone kills Tyrion.

The end.

and/or this.

Tywin knows nothing about northmen.

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While this could work, it would be risky. First they would need to depend on Bolton Support, and would need to bring their own Lannister-Loyal soldiers to garrison Winterfell. It would help if Tyrion's son is raised to act like a Northman. Even so it will be generations before the North ever truly accepts a Lannister Lord, and Tyrion will need constant aid from the Westerlands for it to work.

And this doesn't necessarily have to involve Tyrion raping Sansa. He could just do what Khal Drogo did to Daenarys: make it enjoyable enough for her that she goes along with it.

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While this could work, it would be risky. First they would need to depend on Bolton Support, and would need to bring their own Lannister-Loyal soldiers to garrison Winterfell. It would help if Tyrion's son is raised to act like a Northman. Even so it will be generations before the North ever truly accepts a Lannister Lord, and Tyrion will need constant aid from the Westerlands for it to work.

And this doesn't necessarily have to involve Tyrion raping Sansa. He could just do what Khal Drogo did to Daenarys: make it enjoyable enough for her that she goes along with it.

No way, would she ever willingly sleep with the uncle of the guy who killed her father, mother, and brother. Leave aside the fact that he's a disfigured dwarf, it doesn't matter how "talented' he is and, really that's only played up on the show, no way Sansa goes beyond resigning herself to it. She would never enjoy it nor would she consent to it if he gave her a choice.

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No way, would she ever willingly sleep with the uncle of the guy who killed her father, mother, and brother. Leave aside the fact that he's a disfigured dwarf, it doesn't matter how "talented' he is and, really that's only played up on the show, no way Sansa goes beyond resigning herself to it. She would never enjoy it nor would she consent to it if he gave her a choice.

Tyrion and Sansa were married BEFORE the red wedding, so her brother and father are still alive.

But anyway, I'm sure you remember when Khal Drogo and Daenarys Targaryen were married. The same principle could still apply.

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Tywin was planning to take Winterfell with "Ned's Grandson" AFTER Winter, at the start of Spring. That would have been 5-10 years later. At that point the Northmen loyal to the Starks like Manderly would have already clashed with the Boltons, probably leading to the deaths of many of those who were loyal to the Starks, so many of the houses of the North would probably then have had a different generation in power at the time. We know that during the long winters, like the one Maesters knew was coming, the North has HUGE death tolls and often requires to import food from the South, so Tywin would also have some control over which Lords would prosper during Winter and which ones would starve to death.



Tywin's plan probably also included "Ned's Grandson" going accompanied with 10000 or so Lannister men to "help save" the North from the extremely unpopular Boltons (if they are still alive), to whom he'd shift all the blame for what happened to the Starks, Or if the Boltons have been killed by then, he probably thought he could play it as putting things back in order.



"Ned's Grandson" would probably then take a campaign to drive the Wildlings who Tywin himself probably wanted to pour into the North, back to beyond the Wall, and probably build himself some following among Northern lords.




The plan isn't bad, but it would indeed be ruined with Rickon turning up. However, Tywin couldn't have known that he was still alive.


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Tyrion and Sansa were married BEFORE the red wedding, so her brother and father are still alive.

But anyway, I'm sure you remember when Khal Drogo and Daenarys Targaryen were married. The same principle could still apply.

Yeah and they weren't having sex before the RW either because Sansa couldn't stand him.

Drogo/Dany makes me cringe because I find the consent dubious in that situation plus the idea of a woman being raped and then thinking "hey, this isn't so bad..." Ugh. It's just wrong. But, regardless, Drogo didn't represent the faction that killed Dany's family when they were married, so the situations aren't comparable.

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As many have already stated, the Northmen would never accept a Lannister as their lord. With that being said, I think Tywin intended to enforce the North's fidelity with the realm's strength after the war. Obviously he didn't foresee being murdered by his own son.


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So Tywin made Tyrion marry Sansa so the Lannisters could claim Winterfell and the North. But after Joffrey is poisoned, Tyrion's arrest and Sansa's disappearance, the Lannisters lose that claim correct?

No.

Looking back at the Tyrion/Sansa marriage, it got me thinking, would a House Lannister of Winterfell with Tyrion as its lord actually survive? It would be purely Lannister dominated, the child would a Lannister and the lion banner would fly over Winterfell. All the Northerners hate the Lannisters, except for the Boltons.

Would a Lannister regime over the North work or was that a massive political error on Tywin's part?

Maybe that's part of the "bittersweet ending?" Sansa gains control of the North, but not as a Stark, but as a Lannister? :dunno:

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Tyrion and Sansa have no emotional connection. Since splitting from the Purple Wedding neither have given the other a moments thought. Assuming one or both don't get killed the marriage can be annulled due to (1) it never being consummated (less likely) or (2) Tysha is found to be alive making Tyrion already married (more likely). There is absolutely no way this marriage will survive; not even as a sham marriage.


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I think Tywin's plan is going to go pear-shaped and what we will actually end up with is Sansa accepting the Lannister match - and putting, not a Lannister into Winterfell, but a Stark into Casterly Rock...


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