Lord Godric Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Is it too much of a trope-killer to have Dany come to the realization that she isn't destined to rule and therefore not rule Westeros at the end of the books? Dany has come to many moral realizations about the society in which she lives, but she never takes the final step to question her own "right" to rule. It seems to be one area in which she doesn't depart that much from Vicerys, thinking that she deserves the Iron Throne because it is hers by right.Sure she's badass and has dragons, so Valyrian-given right or not, she could rule, but will she ever begin to question the fundamental idea that she must rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Unlikely. She's going to go full-blown villain (which she imho already is) before acknowledging that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Dany will be on the throne at some point I believe and maybe it will be a case of she doesn't want to but she sees herself as the best/only option Unlikely. She's going to go full-blown villain (which she imho already is) before acknowledging that. How is she a full-blown villain already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I think she will definitely question her right to rule.My thinking is that only her & Jon will discover Jons true parentage & that she will try to convince Jon to take the throne, but Jon will refuse it either because the Watch will still be needed or because he still considers himself a Stark more than a Targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I think she'll die before taking Westeros and be a martyr to the Rhllor ppl and become a big figure in the lore of their religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord littlefinger martel Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Unlikely. She's going to go full-blown villain (which she imho already is) before acknowledging that.If she does barristan will kill her I am definite. After two tries to change her. He has tried at last ruling he doesn't trust targaryen madness at all (good for him). There is precedent of kingslaying he will gain a bad ass nickname the queenslayer. And then although so honorable he has changed sides I know Robert had a gift for that. And it will be in his arc he will be like: I am faithful to the queen she will be remembered for her good deeds mostly and if the queen I met this monster I killed she would do the same. Plus it suits Martin taste for making his characters do controversial things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 How is she a full-blown villain already? Mass executions? The torture (and probably rape) of presumably innocent girls to get their presumably innocent father to talk after fully acknowledging it as most likely useless? Judging with extreme bias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord littlefinger martel Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Is it too much of a trope-killer to have Dany come to the realization that she isn't destined to rule and therefore not rule Westeros at the end of the books? Dany has come to many moral realizations about the society in which she lives, but she never takes the final step to question her own "right" to rule. It seems to be one area in which she doesn't depart that much from Vicerys, thinking that she deserves the Iron Throne because it is hers by right.Sure she's badass and has dragons, so Valyrian-given right or not, she could rule, but will she ever begin to question the fundamental idea that she must rule?Why should she? She does live in a feudal society you know. And if she did it would more be like (if she comes in westeros )let us have a great council where we will decide if jon aegon daenerys stannis tommen sits the throne. Tommen she herself and jon would be all for it. And these three might not be like yay there will be bloodshed we have seen she loves peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Mass executions? The torture (and probably rape) of presumably innocent girls to get their presumably innocent father to talk after fully acknowledging it as most likely useless? Judging with extreme bias? I guess you think every ruler is a villain then ? Or is Dany worse then most of the ruler/villains already established in the series? Not trolling just want to see more of your reasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Is it too much of a trope-killer to have Dany come to the realization that she isn't destined to rule and therefore not rule Westeros at the end of the books? Dany has come to many moral realizations about the society in which she lives, but she never takes the final step to question her own "right" to rule. It seems to be one area in which she doesn't depart that much from Vicerys, thinking that she deserves the Iron Throne because it is hers by right.Sure she's badass and has dragons, so Valyrian-given right or not, she could rule, but will she ever begin to question the fundamental idea that she must rule? Out of curiosity, do you also expect the Starks to question their claim to Winterfell? The Lannisters, their claim to the Westerlands? Sunspear for the Martells? Stannis to abandon his own fight for the Iron Throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I seriously doubt she will ever decide "oh actually I don't want to go to westeros nvm I'll just find a house with a red door" or whatever. If she wanted that she could have done it before she hatched her dragons - Jorah offered to take her wherever. No, she feels she has a great destiny and even a duty to her family. If she just gave up I dont think she could live with herself.Then again, I one likely possibility is that she knowingly sacrifices herself to save westeros from The Others, and never rules in her own right, or only very briefly. That is a trope in itself, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Out of curiosity, do you also expect the Starks to question their claim to Winterfell? The Lannisters, their claim to the Westerlands? Sunspear for the Martells? Stannis to abandon his own fight for the Iron Throne? This Even if Daenerys thought "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be Queen." She would realize that every other ruler is a douche bag that would do less for the people than she would at least try to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Mass executions? The torture (and probably rape) of presumably innocent girls to get their presumably innocent father to talk after fully acknowledging it as most likely useless? Judging with extreme bias?It's all fine and good if you consider her a villain over such things, but at least be consistent. Stannis should be a villain in your book as well then. He employs torturers on DS. Suggs even gets off on torturing women ffs.Daenerys, Tyrion, and Arya are all very grey, but I don't think for one minute he's going to make any of his main characters a "villain". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 i always thought for some reason jon would kill dany it would feel very GRRM to me for jon to kill dany and sort of get rid of the monarchy or maybe set her up as a powerless figurehead when if the r+l=j is real he has the "right" to rule and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Out of curiosity, do you also expect the Starks to question their claim to Winterfell? The Lannisters, their claim to the Westerlands? Sunspear for the Martells? Stannis to abandon his own fight for the Iron Throne? I don't, but none of these characters have had the same storyline as Dany. What she's been doing for the past two books (that she's in) is overthrowing unjust or unfair systems and she's making moral claims and investigating moral quandaries in a way which the Starks, Lannisters, Martells and Stannis are not and never have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 It's all fine and good if you consider her a villain over such things, but at least be consistent. Stannis should be a villain in your book as well then. He employs torturers on DS. Suggs even gets off on torturing women ffs.Daenerys, Tyrion, and Arya are all very grey, but I don't think for one minute he's going to make any of his main characters a "villain". tyrion rapes a woman he is a villain and protagonist as well but a villain. same with stannis and dany too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 tyrion rapes a woman he is a villain and protagonist as well but a villain. same with stannis and dany tooAgree to disagree. I don't see any of them as villains. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Then again, I one likely possibility is that she knowingly sacrifices herself to save westeros from The Others, and never rules in her own right, or only very briefly. That is a trope in itself, of course. I'll be forthright and admit that this is *exactly* what I want to happen. But I don't see it happening because I don't think Dany will go that far. I think it would be the perfect ending for Dany's story for her to sacrifice herself to save Westeros, but it seems to be too much of a divergence from the Hero-of-the-entire-series trope to 1. be accomplished and 2. be enjoyed by some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess who's back Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 If she does barristan will kill her I am definite. lol, Barristan is too weak to kill Dany. I highly doubt he would have tried to kill Robert had he laughed at the dead baby dragonspawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I don't, but none of these characters have had the same storyline as Dany. What she's been doing for the past two books (that she's in) is overthrowing unjust or unfair systems and she's making moral claims and investigating moral quandaries in a way which the Starks, Lannisters, Martells and Stannis are not and never have. all those other people have other moral quandaries to make "do i lie to save a murderer because he save my life?" "you are suppose to protect your family and the innocent what happens when killing an innocent and a member of your family is to protect all of the innocent and the family as a whole?" and etc... i understand their choices as well as hers but they are leading her and others down a villainous path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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