the_north-remembers Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Just want to point out that GRRM may of needed Jon to die and then maybe get resurrected in some way because this would release him from his oaths and allow him to participate in the other conflicts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronomus Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Jon was already about to ride south to take part in another conflict; then he got stabbed. The Wall needs more people, not less. Has it occurred to you guys that maybe he simply survived the attack? Approximately 0.4 seconds after Jon blacked out, I assure you that Tormund's wildlings rioted and seized control of Castle Black. Jon is practically the new King Beyond the Wall, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtommcandrew Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Don't know if someone has already guessed this before but, when John is stabbed the final time, GRRM writes something like this: ...he didn't feel it, only the cold... (Not the exact quote but pretty similar) People have said that this could mean he has warged into Ghost, but I think there may be reason to believe it means something else. 'the cold' could possibly mean that as Jon is stabbed, the Others attack the wall. We all know that they bring a unique cold atmosphere whenever they appear in force, so they might be about to arrive at that moment. This is just pure speculation by me, but what this could mean is that instead of The Watch and The Wildings battling each other, they must stay united, at least temporarily to counter The Other's attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 FOOD FOR THOUGHT When the shadow killed Renly ,Renly felt cold . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronomus Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 People feel cold when they go into shock. What of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtommcandrew Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Another point that could be significant is if there were any wildings left at Hardhome after the slave traders got to them. If there was, The Others could have came and killed them and raised them up as thralls, and they could be the ones coming towards the wall, bringing the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertRivers Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 FOOD FOR THOUGHT When the shadow killed Renly ,Renly felt cold .This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertRivers Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I'm torn. Some day I think the others happen to show up during the last sentence of the chapter, and others I think they happen to show up after Mel's shadow baby gets him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragelsnart Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 One thing I thought points out that he may have died said:He never felt the fourth...He NEVER felt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Umber Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 One thing I thought points out that he may have died said:He NEVER felt it yeah but he felt the cold.... so he ain't dead yet. I wonder if there were more knives after the 4th...?1st - Wick Whittlestick 2nd - Bowen Marsh3rd & 4th - I assume Left Hand Lew and Alf of Runnymudd The fallout at the wall immediately after this is probably my most anticipated scene in Winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelSnow Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Haven't D&D already ruined the aftermath of the stabbing by what one of them said at the Oxford Q&A with Kit and John? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 He was going to march to winterfell to get involved in affairs that really should have nothing to do with the LC, no matter what way you look at it he was an oathbreaker, or was going to be. Actually he was since he slept with ygritte. If GRRM wanted him to be released of his vows, it doesn't matter because death is the only way to pay for breaking oaths. And I'm sorry but I don't think the nights watch are going to say "sound, he's already died, so he's paid his punishment. Now off you go jon, spread your wings and be free, become king and azor ahai. Don't worry we'll stay here in this cold living nightmare because we've stuck by our oaths, have a safe trip." If he lives things won't be as simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Jon will warg into ghost and Melissandre will make sure his body is not burned because she knows Jon is a warg. There's a reason why his last word was "Ghost" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse17Renee Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 " In the cold night air the wound was smoking. Ghost. He whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt, and fell face first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife.... " The last 3 statements are awesome. GRRM describes Jon's wounds almost exactly as he does the dragons wounds in Daenerys' chapters when they are being shot at with arrows. He then goes to Ghost, which probably means that he will Warg into Ghost for a time. Then he goes to Ayra.... Here is where I draw an awesome blank. Is Ayra going to save him somehow. Why is she his last thought... And he thinks of her in a way that would indicate she is killing someone. "stick them with the pointy end". I believe that the best angle that GRRM could go with Jon is to reunite him with Un-Cat. I believe that this would be an amazing story arc. Cat gives Jon the Kiss of Life after Howland Reed reveals to her that Jon was NEVER Ned's bastard. That he was Lyanna's son and that Ned sacrificed his honor to protect Jon for his sister. Cat would feel obligated to fulfill Ned's promise to Lyanna and to let Jon know who he was so that he could avenge his "cousins" and all of the North. Or Jon dies or is about to die, and Melisandre gives him to the flames...If he is a Targ... The flames do not kill him.... Something else happens.... Not sure what else is, but I bet it would be awesome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in The Mount Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I believe that the best angle that GRRM could go with Jon is to reunite him with Un-Cat. I believe that this would be an amazing story arc. Cat gives Jon the Kiss of Life after Howland Reed reveals to her that Jon was NEVER Ned's bastard. That he was Lyanna's son and that Ned sacrificed his honor to protect Jon for his sister. Cat would feel obligated to fulfill Ned's promise to Lyanna GRRM said that resurrected people only care about their oaths (or something along those lines) I like the idea of LS helping fulfill Ned's promise to Lyanna. Also, Targs can die by fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 His name was Jon it rhymes with gone.Feeling cold is probably the oldest literature and movie cliche about dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronomus Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The chapter ends with Jon feeling cold. It doesn't even explicitly state that he lost consciousness. It just says that he felt cold. So let's employ Occam's Razor; the simplest explanation is the one mostly likely to be correct: Jon Snow is in shock. The injuries he's sustained are not necessarily fatal. We don't know where the fourth knife struck him, but of the other three, only the one in his gut poses a mortal peril, and even if that is fatal, it won't kill him for days. Meanwhile, the the loyal Black Brothers and Wildlings at Castle Black surely outnumber the conspirators by magnitudes, so Jon once the dust settles, he'll be in good hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NymeriaWarriorQueen Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 He was going to march to winterfell to get involved in affairs that really should have nothing to do with the LC, no matter what way you look at it he was an oathbreaker, or was going to be. Actually he was since he slept with ygritte. If GRRM wanted him to be released of his vows, it doesn't matter because death is the only way to pay for breaking oaths. And I'm sorry but I don't think the nights watch are going to say "sound, he's already died, so he's paid his punishment. Now off you go jon, spread your wings and be free, become king and azor ahai. Don't worry we'll stay here in this cold living nightmare because we've stuck by our oaths, have a safe trip." If he lives things won't be as simple as thatI just reread AFFC and ADWD and I'm torn about the fate of Jon Snow. The first time I rationalized to myself that NO he wasn't dead and eventually would be one of the heads of the dragons. After rereading, I saw that Jon was making alot of decisions with results that would confirm to the men of the Night's Watch that he was being a traitor. It's sorta like with Robb and him not keeping his promise to the Freys. The only outcomes I can imagine for Jon is that he warged into Snow when he called Snow" as he was being stabbed, died, or Melisandre gives him a second life. The "smoking" wound also confused me. Was it smoking because of the cold air surrounding it or was he smoking like a dragon when wounded? Just food for thought. Edited to say I agree that things won't be the same. It could be a pivotal point like the beheading of Ned Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronomus Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 He was going to march to winterfell to get involved in affairs that really should have nothing to do with the LC, no matter what way you look at it he was an oathbreaker, or was going to be. The pink letter represented a clear and present danger to the Night's Watch. Ramsay threatened to murder the Lord Commander unless impossible conditions were met. Going south to answer this threat is hardly oathbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NymeriaWarriorQueen Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The pink letter represented a clear and present danger to the Night's Watch. Ramsay threatened to murder the Lord Commander unless impossible conditions were met. Going south to answer this threat is hardly oathbreaking.The pink letter revealed that Jon had been interfering with politics within the realm. It revealed that Mance was not dead as the Men of the Watch thought and had been sent to rescue Jon's half-sister. Let's admit it.....Jon was between a rock and a hard place. His compassion for the Wildings is much like Dany's caring for the children she unslaved. However, both Dany's and Jon's choices upset the natural order of things and there was a backlash. The NightWatch just doesn't trust the Wildings based on past history and are as scared of them as they are the Others. WunWun ripping that knight apart further cemented their fears. I can see it from both perspectives and the outcome was inevitable, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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