Jump to content

[TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 2


Recommended Posts

Oh, very well.....



I see the food stockpiles in the Vale, potentially in the future being controlled by Sansa, being a source of supply for the Night's Watch, whose food supplies are already running low. Jon has already negotiated funding from the Iron Bank of Braavos.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was a pretty good chapter, I think. It did not strike me as very controversial, but it certainly was quite interesting to see how Sansa has changed her way of thinking. Harry is a jerk, but I expected him to be slightly more intelligent.

Also, the name of Uther Shett is simply amazing.

Its a fantastic name. However, honours of the day have to go to 'Benjicot' :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what was controversial about that chapter, but after thinking about it I feel certain that Sweetrobin is indeed LF's biological son.



Sweetrobin's description from the wiki: Robert is a sickly, whiny, and spoilt child of six. He is small and pale with brown hair and big eyes. His hair later grows very long.



Lysa's description from the wiki: Lysa is thick of body, pale and puffy of face. She has the blue eyes of the Tullys and a small, petulant mouth. She has long, thick, auburn hair.



LF's description from the wiki: A short man of slender build, with sharp features, Petyr has gray-green eyes, a small pointed beard on his chin, and threads of grey running throughout his dark hair.



HtH's description from the chapter: Ser Harrold Hardyng looked every inch a lord-in-waiting; clean-limbed and handsome, straight as a lance, hard with muscle. Men old enough to have known Jon Arryn in his youth said Ser Harrold had his look, she knew. He had a mop of sandy blond hair, pale blue eyes, an aquiline nose.



Sansa playing with Sweetrobin's hair early in the chapter than the later description of HtH has convinced me LF is indeed Sweetrobin's father. I don't see how a man that looked like HtH and a woman that looked like Lysa produced a child that looked like Sweetrobin. I'm not really sure if it means anything though. Funny, I hadn't given this much thought before reading this chapter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, very well.....

I see the food stockpiles in the Vale, potentially in the future being controlled by Sansa, being a source of supply for the Night's Watch, whose food supplies are already running low. Jon has already negotiated funding from the Iron Bank of Braavos.

Personally I wonder if Littlefinger via Sansa is going to distribute them in the Riverlands to win support amongst at least the smallfolk when there is a powershift when the Lannister backed Freys are put under pressure as the Lannisters retreat from KL

This ties in with an idea of Sansa being politically active in the Vale/Riverlands in a Margaery sense and being charitable to the poor. The show is making her Littlefingers protege but in this she is taking her cue from Littlefinger but showing signs of having learned from both Marge and Tyrion.

Someone mentioned in the previous thread the notion of Littlefinger having observed the Tyrells and having respect for them, haven't looked at this too closely but it seems to make sense as he would consider how they would legitimise their power given they aren't an ancient Royal House as such. Obviously ensuring the smallfolk are well fed is a good way to secure their acquiescence.

In this case Littlefinger is a Lannister elected Lord of Harrenhall and Lord Paramount of the Trident, if he wants to do a Tyrells Baratheon/Lannister style switch to a new IT candidate taking power in KL, then a readily available food supply to help establish order and fill in the power vacuum is important

Food ensures acquiescence of a hungry smallfolk and Sansa twin Stark/Tully heritage the nobility

This is ironic because the "Lemons in Dorne" plus the Black Hair shining in the Fire (Blackfyre?...) offers the suggestion LF may be aligning with Dorne who we know via Arianne is aligning with Aegon who is a Varys puppet but the assumption from the Dornish at least is that Dany and Aegon will team up. This may seem odd but keep "enemies close but enemies closer" perhaps etc and so far Varys and JonCon have only gone about securing support in the South and not necassarily the north and Riverlands. Depends on where this chapter is in the timeline and whether LF is hedging against the possibility of Stannis taking the north from the Boltons

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So we agree he is at least as intelligent as most people in the books?


As I said, no better than he ought to be. Which sadly probably won't do, once he's up against the likes of Littlefinger. Could he have hidden depths? Sure, why not. All I'm saying is that they're still very hidden at this point.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is ironic because the "Lemons in Dorne" plus the Black Hair shining in the Fire (Blackfyre?...) offers the suggestion LF may be aligning with Dorne who we know via Arianne is aligning with Aegon who is a Varys puppet but the assumption from the Dornish at least is that Dany and Aegon will team up. This may seem odd but keep "enemies close but enemies closer" perhaps etc and so far Varys and JonCon have only gone about securing support in the South and not necassarily the north and Riverlands. Depends on where this chapter is in the timeline and whether LF is hedging against the possibility of Stannis taking the north from the Boltons

Varys says to Eddard that he's not in league with LF. I think this is one of the few true things we know about Varys. He also says that this is no longer a game of two players, and that LF is the second most devious man in Westeros. I belive we will see now the endgame between those two players. They will move against each other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I the only one who thinks this is not the full chapter? Usually the chapters end on some kind of cliffhanger, major or minor. It seems to me that Who's going to wear my favor?!! is not the actual ending, but rather the tournament and the 'controversial' part have been omitted. (I don't want to get on the bad side of the King of the Board, but the explanation for why this chapter was considered controversial was, well, unconvincing.)





Not the lemongate all over please.




When George stops hinting at it I'll stop posting about it.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

When George stops hinting at it I'll stop posting about it.

Some people are willing to create a whole flimsy theory on a very vague word while others are willing to ignore clues which are presented very clearly and often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I the only one who thinks this is not the full chapter? Usually the chapters end on some kind of cliffhanger, major or minor. It seems to me that Who's going to wear my favor?!! is not the actual ending, but rather the tournament and the 'controversial' part have been omitted. (I don't want to get on the bad side of the King of the Board, but the explanation for why this chapter was considered controversial was, well, unconvincing.)

When George stops hinting at it I'll stop posting about it.

No way is the tournament going to fit into the same chapter (Not that long chapters would be impossible, there's a chapter in Wheel of Time that's 252 pages long, but when it's all from the same POV you can't keep on going forever). The chapter, as it is, is already over 22 pages long. Martin's average chapter length throughout the series is 17 pages. Last time we had a tournament in the series it took two or three chapters. As Martin can't afford to use three chapters on a tournament, assuming he want's to finish in seven books, it'll probably be only one this time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Woah lots of new houses. Breakstone, and Lipps (god I hate that name), plus a heap of new house members.
Love this stuff.

And seriously, the whole King of the Vale vibe... GOTTA HAVE MORE KNIGHTS THEN TOMMEN!!! It's quality stuff.

The Shett's sigil is different to the one from the semi-canon sources, which bothers me. Perhaps it is a personal sigil?

Although this does make me worried for pacing? This was a slow chapter, even if it puts all the pieces in place.

And I don't get Uther Shett being so funny? Can someone clarify please? I'm not good with that stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the cliffhanger is, who will wear Alayne's favor?

I think it is one of the Waynwood knights. If it is Ser Wallace than it would be a blow to those who think that Sansa's kindness is fading away. Roland seems to be more interested in her, and it would infuriate Horrible Harry even more, I think.

And seriously, the whole King of the Vale vibe... GOTTA HAVE MORE KNIGHTS THEN TOMMEN!!! It's quality stuff.

And I don't get Uther Shett being so funny? Can someone clarify please? I'm not good with that stuff.

Somehow I begin to like Robert Arryn.

Because Uther Shett looks like utter shit. Which is the way he behaves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some Sandory things I spotted:

Sansa watches Sandor joust in the tourney where Sandor saved Loras, and Sandor is the champion (defeating Baratheon, Lannister, and Tyrell):

"Is the Hound the champion now?"... Sansa had the right of it...


In the second of two tourneys Sansa has watched, she thinks this about Sandor, who helps her save Dontos ("The girl speaks truly"):

He had been the champion at her father's tourney, Sansa remembered.


When it looked like Sandor was about to fall from his horse, Sansa gasped, she didn't want it to happen (also, Jaime ended up falling on his head), but she wants Harry to fall on his head:

Sansa was watching it all moist-eyed and eager...

Wood shattered, and the Hound reeled, fighting to keep his seat. Sansa gasped... This time, when Jaime shifted his seat, Sandor Clegane shifted with him. Both lances exploded, and by the time the splinters had settled, a riderless blood bay was trotting off in search of grass while Ser Jaime Lannister rolled in the dirt, golden and dented...

Sansa said, "I knew the Hound would win." ...

Jaime Lannister was back on his feet, but his ornate lion helmet had been twisted around and dented in his fall, and now he could not get it off.

And may your horse stumble, Harry the Heir, so you fall on your stupid head in your first tilt.


Sansa thinking of "another kiss" - Sandor's kiss - and finding someone to wear her favor at the third tourney:

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own.

"You may not. It is promised to… another." She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone.


Sandor was the only one in the Kingsguard to keep her safe, and she wants a Kingsguard for Sweetrobin to keep him safe:

I would be gladder if it were the Hound, Sansa thought. Harsh as he was, she did not believe Sandor Clegane would let any harm come to her...

"I could keep you safe," he rasped. "They're all afraid of me. No one would hurt you again, or I'd kill them."

His own Kingsguard, to keep him safe and make him brave.


She thinks Lothor is Sandor in a previous chapter, and she runs into him just the way she ran into Sandor, and he says arse, which Sandor likes to say, and he disses Harry:

She was racing headlong down the serpentine steps when a man lurched out of a hidden doorway. Sansa caromed into him and lost her balance. Iron fingers caught her by the wrist before she could fall...

It was Lothor Brune's voice, she realized. Not the Hound's, no, how could it be? Of course it had to be Lothor...

"Well, bugger your ribbons, and shove your swords up your arses. I’m the same as you. The only difference is, I don’t lie about what I am."

They made a race of it...

Near the keep, she ran headlong into Ser Lothor Brune and almost knocked him off his feet. “Harry the Heir? Harry the Arse, I say. He’s just some upjumped squire.

Alayne was so grateful that she hugged him.


In a prior passage, she defends Sandor's "jousting" and now there are similar references:

Of late Ser Osmund had taken Sandor Clegane's place by Joffrey's side, and Sansa had heard the women at the washing well saying he was as strong as the Hound, only younger and faster. If that was so, she wondered why she had never once heard of these Kettleblacks before Ser Osmund was named to the Kingsguard.

Outside the window she could hear the laughter of the washerwomen at the well, the din of steel on steel from the ward where the knights were at their drills. Good Sounds.


She also thinks about Sweetrobin's long hair just before she thinks of kissing Sandor (who wears his hair long):

She sat on the bed and smoothed his long, fine hair. He does have pretty hair... Alayne wound a lock around her finger... As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss.

Alayne smoothed his hair. He does have pretty hair. If the gods are good and he lives long enough to wed, his wife will admire his hair, surely.


Alayne is supposed to be from Gulltown, and she "remembers" Sandor's kiss, something that will come up again ("You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her..."):

He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

"I remember Gulltown fondly," she told him, with a smile as vague as it was pleasant.


Tom Sevenstrings sings a song about stealing a sweet kiss from a fair maid in Gulltown before Sandor reappears in the narrative in book 3:

Off to Gulltown to see the fair maid, heigh-ho, heigh-ho
I'll steal a sweet kiss with the point of my blade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho
I'll make her my love and we'll rest in the shade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho


Dunk thinks of the same song while digging a grave on a slope, and later Sandor digs a grave on a slope:

The spring rains had softened the ground, so Dunk had no trouble digging the grave. He chose a spot on the western slope of a low hill... Only a few days past, he had been singing as they rode, the old song about going to Gulltown to see a fair maid...


On the upper slopes they saw three boys driving sheep, and higher still they passed a lichyard where a brother bigger than Brienne was struggling to dig a grave.


And there are other Dunk and Sandor parallels...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...