GRRM considering big twist for a major character

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

Quote taken from this link: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

So who do you think he is talking about? And what could the twist be? The show has already made decisions that would prevent the twist?

Now George also knows what happens in season 5 which we have yet to see, so it could relate to season 5 changes, but I am curious what ideas people have.

[Grayce Hornwood]

Has there been any word on a casting for Aegon? If they cut him from the show, then it could be that he's revealed to be fake in the books. If not him, then I can't think of anybody else that the twist would concern.

[Faint]

"long-time character" = not Aegon

[Emanresu]

There is also discussion of this in the Winds Of Winter Resource thread.

I think the possibilities, probably in decreasing order of likelihood, include:

• LS, Jaime, Brienne, Pod (or as someone suggested Cersei) - impossible on show as no LS
  
• Something around someone who is dead on the show but not in the books. Jojen plus some far northern types, or Xaro and Irri and ??, or...)
  
• Something around characters who are very different in the show and books: LF for example is very different in the show than in the books, and there may be something that is possible for book LF that is not for show LF. Or Missandei and Grey Worm.
  
• Something around cut characters like most of the Ironborn
  
• Something else
  

Quite sure I'm missing some obvious possibilities. Don't think it's fAegon as he's only just been introduced.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

It must be Stannis Dany Sansa Jon Tyrion Cersei Jaime Littlefinger Jorah Loras Missandei Davos Lady Stoneheart Bran Theon Xaro Xhoan Daxos.

Seriously, the man purposefully gave us almost zero clues. You won't be able to logically deduce the correct answer, it's just wild guessing.

[Emanresu]

Agree it's just guessing, but we can at least narrow the field between us to the possibilities, if only so GRRM can have a good laugh when it's actually something completely different :cool4:

[Ninerings]

Actually, he gave a big clue: It involves " three, four characters"...

[Faint]

My money is on one of Brienne, Catelyn, Jaime or Cersei, with the first most likely. In any case, I think it involves the four of them.

[CreativeName]

LSH / Brienne / Jaime / Pod seems the most likely of guesses.

For the sake of completeness, I'd like to throw in Sam / Alleras / Gilly etc. in Oldtown into the mix. Haven't they decided to keep Sam at the Wall on the show? That could mean that new twists could happen at the Citadel.

[titanx5]

I have the feeling that it could be Jamie, Brienne, Pod, LS as I think LSH is cut. However perhaps it might be the Aegon, JonCon, Arianne storyline that is probably cut on the show

[HexMachina]

Actually, he gave a big clue: It involves " three, four characters"...

In a series with hundreds of characters, that doesn't come across as a 'big' clue. Because he doesn't say its three POV characters.

We can (most likely) rule out anyone introduced in Dance or Feast, as he says longtime character. I also don't think its Jaime/Brienne/LSH, because he says the twist (if he goes with it) is "revealing." That doesn't appear to fit with where they are right now.

I said elsewhere that we won't be able to draw clues or "foreshadowing" (which people 'see' I'm these books way too often imo. Most of what people call 'foreshadowing is a load of old tosh) from the earlier books because he has only just thought of this (and has not necessarily decided to go ahead with it either.) Because of that, he can't have put anything in to hint at this. Being consistent with the earlier novels doesn't mean there are clues hidden in the text (like there are for Lysa murdering Jon Arryn, or the Red Wedding).

I quite like the idea of Xaro Xhoan Daxos being involved. There is the potential for Dany to have unfinished business with him that could be an unexpected twist, but if GRRM decided not to go that route it would impact the story too much. And the show can't do anything with it, because they killed of Xaro.

Another alternative, again involving Dany, is Mago. GRRM has mentioned Mago before in relation to being killed off in the show. Dany meets him at the end of Dance. It could set up some kind of twist (as long as it's not a romance :ack: )

Something to do with Quaithe might also be likely. Maybe he simply thought of her as random shadowbinder come to help Dany until now, but decided "Hey, y'know, she could be *insert character here* and she is helping Dany because *insert reason here*" Actually, I quite like the idea of it being something to do with Quaithe

One last guess for now (I could do this all day!) would be something relating to Jeyne Westerling and the Blackfish. Jeyne was written out of the show and replaced with Talisa, who was killed. Blackfish was at the Red Wedding in the show, but escaped. So, it would fit in. What the twist could be though, I have no idea. Hey, maybe Blackfish finally gets married! ;)

[Corvinus85]

"Revealing" tells me that it's something about a character's past. I think Jaime has had plenty of reveals, though Brienne may be still in the run.

3-4 characters could also involve Victarion/Barristan/Tyrion/Daenerys, where my money would be on Vic or Barristan, or that Tyrion really is a secret Targ, and GRRM is the last person to have thought about it :P

Or it could be another case of a character who should be dead but isn't, in which case I'm going to go with Arthur Dayne or his sister.

[Bael's Bastard]

My first thought with the three to four characters comment was Bran, Hodor, Meira, and Jojen.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

It doesn't say "major character", it says "long-time character". It also indicates that the show changed the character's story in a way that burned some bridges. (Note - that also indicates that the character indeed exists on the show, which narrows the field.)

I'm guessing Gendry.

[HexMachina]

It doesn't say "major character", it says "long-time character". It also indicates that the show changed the character's story in a way that burned some bridges. (Note - that also indicates that the character indeed exists on the show, which narrows the field.)

I'm guessing Gendry.

It doesn't indicate they existed on the show, actually. It says the show made decisions which preclude the twist. That decision could be to not include said character. (Edric springs to mind as an example there)

[Lady Whiskers Outlaws Beet]

I also thought he meant Xaro Xhoan Daxos, or LSH though there's a chance she'd still appear...

Jeyne Westerling?

[Robb_Warged]

Jeyne Westerling is pregnant. Robb won.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

It doesn't indicate they existed on the show, actually. It says the show made decisions which preclude the twist. That decision could be to not include said character. (Edric springs to mind as an example there)

I kinda figured that cutting a character from the show would qualify as one decision, not "a couple decisions". (Although I'm still hoping Edric Storm will indeed show up in Season 6.) I also figured that "long-time character" meant someone introduced in AGoT or ACoK, and there weren't that many cuts in the first two seasons that this could apply to. Gendry is still first on my list, due to the way D&D altered his story in a way that he can't realistically return to the book version.

[Vylarr Rivers]

I also thought he meant Xaro Xhoan Daxos, or LSH though there's a chance she'd still appear...

Jeyne Westerling?

It's obviously a meeting between Stoneheart, Xaro, Mago and Jeyne Westerling. They have this secret masterplan to carve out kingdoms of their own like the Ninepenny Kings did (that much has been foreshadowed since book 1). But the show writers didn't listen to GRRM and killed Mago, imprisoned Xaro, cut Stoneheart and replaced Jeyne.

Now it will be difficult for the show writers to write a decent endgame without these key characters...

[Lady Whiskers Outlaws Beet]

Jeyne Westerling is pregnant. Robb won.

the seed is strong

It's obviously a meeting between Stoneheart, Xaro, Mago and Jeyne Westerling. They have this secret masterplan to carve out kingdoms of their own like the Ninepenny Kings did (that much has been foreshadowed since book 1). But the show writers didn't listen to GRRM and killed Mago, imprisoned Xaro, cut Stoneheart and replaced Jeyne.

Now it will be difficult for the show writers to write a decent endgame without these key characters...

it is known