Just how controversial was the Sansa chapter?

[Hammermen's Revolt]

To those saying Sansa has been learning to survive all through KL: there is a difference between surviving in a position of fear and acute danger and surviving in a position of (marginal) power. Those are two wholly different games.

[Mad Madam Mim]

Nope. No controversy here.

The only thing that raised a teeny, tiny eyebrow was Sansa's comfortableness with LF. Although he is still partakes a mentor role at the moment (eg. his instructions to Sansa re: flirting with Harry), it also seems to be leaning towards more a mutual partnership (LF used her idea of the tourney, Sansa looks forward to telling LF funny tidbits about her day). It will be interesting to see how this plays out moving forward.

[Sword of the Morgan]

This wasn't the controversial one, was it? How could it be?

[AliceRose]

Nope. No controversy here.

The only thing that raised a teeny, tiny eyebrow was Sansa's comfortableness with LF. Although he is still partakes a mentor role at the moment (eg. his instructions to Sansa re: flirting with Harry), it also seems to be leaning towards more a mutual partnership (LF used her idea of the tourney, Sansa looks forward to telling LF funny tidbits about her day). It will be interesting to see how this plays out moving forward.

Pretty much this. It's controversial for all the Petyr haters, a lot of folks in this forum did not want and still don't want to see Sansa happy wherever Petyr is involved.

To see Sansa's happens and self esteem increased because of Baelish should be really hard.

No mention of Sandor it's a final straw.

But i can't tell you how much i'm satisfied, it's better than i hoped. :cool4:

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

I finished it half an hour ago, I didn't find it controversial.

[Bael's Bastard]

IIRC they only said that it might be controversial for some fans, not that it was some major thing that would shock everybody. I am sure it will be polished before it gets into the book. I liked the chapter.

[BitsOfBrains]

The only thing I found controversial is that she seems to be a completely different character.

All of a sudden she isn't stupid anymore?

Someones IQ doesn't jump substantial because they spend a few months hanging with a smart person.

It would be like if Hodor all of a sudden starting reciting poetry.

[Stannis's birthright]

If Sansa had decided to act like this it might be slightly controversial but she was just doing as she was told just like she always does ... She has yet to truly act on her own .. That is what I'm waiting for from her

[White Ravens]

Elio said on twitter yesterday that they read the Mercy chapter long after the Sansa chapter. So it's not so much that they thought it was less controversial than this one, just that they likely hadn't read it at the time of the Vulture interview. Of course, in hindsight I don't understand why no one asked them to rank the chapters in context of how controversial they thought they were. Though I think the different levels of fanaticism of the girls's fanbases probably played a role as well.

Stop injecting context, it gets in the way of dissing GRRM and his writing.

[Lord Damian]

It is not that controvertial but i think there is one other chapter that this one was released in order to "prepare" us for. In other words, Our Sansa is approaching an area that could get out of control and cause more ramifications than she is comprehending. If given half a chance, This Harry would take her without her full consent. I hate it but I think book Sansa is simply an upgraded tool being used by a different craftsman. Cersei was the first and Baelish is the second and new one. Book Sansa is still at Littlefinger's mercy and she is being loyal to him as if he was her real father, which, really pisses me and everyone off because we know what he has done and by now, after learning what he did to poor Jon Arryn, Sansa should realize too. Damn this girl falls for a handsome Knight/lord every fucking time, douche or not. Harry the heir is exactly what others said, Robert 2.0 . The way he discussed the mothers of his children is embarrasing to me as a male and it seems Sansa (I hope I am wrong) seems suckered in, willingly.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

I read it and thought - THIS was controversial? I am a Sansa fan and thought it was great character development for her.

The only controversial things I could think of: 1) Harry is a jerk - thus leading to disappointment from Sansa/Harry shippers, all ten of them. :lol: 2) Sansa keeps thinking of LF as her father. Well, I wasn't expecting her to shed her Alayne persona so early in TWOW, and I don't think many other people were either. 3) She doesn't think of Sandor. I suppose that's disappointing to some of the really hard-core SanSan shippers, but she's got plenty of time to think of him in other chapters, I suppose!

People were building it up to Sansa murdering Sweetrobin or getting raped by Littlefinger, ffs! I predicted it would only be mildly controversial - because of Ran's statement that it might be controversial to some Sansa fans - but the only thing I can think of is that Ran was pulling our legs, or else was in contact with a subset of fanatic Harry/Sansa will live happily ever after people. :D :rofl: :lmao:

[Byfort of Corfe]

It is not that controvertial but i think there is one other chapter that this one was released in order to "prepare" us for. In other words, Our Sansa is approaching an area that could get out of control and cause more ramifications than she is comprehending. If given half a chance, This Harry would take her without her full consent. I hate it but I think book Sansa is simply an upgraded tool being used by a different craftsman.

That's not my read at all. Old Sansa would have ben absolutely smitten by Hairy the Hair and she would have been crushed at what he said. Sansa/Alayne takes it in stride, she knows she's better than him and she, with Petyr's advice, plays him like a violin. Old Sansa would have given him her favor (and swooned while she did so), Sansa/Alayne doesn't. She knows that he's her's whenever she says. Sansa/Alayne is learning quickly just how powerful she is.

[Harry the Hair]

I thought this chapter was cute. It felt like the calm before the storm. We got an adorable Sweetrobin declaring his love to Alayne, we have a nice friendship between Sansa and Myranda, we got a new glimpse at LF's plots, we got a creepy Ser Shadrich sneaking around the place, we got Harry the Douche (who may or may not turn in to a more pleasant fellow) and we got Alayne the Seductress. But the best part about this chapter is the set up for the Winged Knights tourney.

Tourneys are very important in Sansa's arc, every time she attends one she gets exposed to another character that affects her story line. In the Hand's tourney she began having meaningful interactions with the Hound, in Joff's tourney she met Ser Dontos, in the Winged Knights' tourney I bet the important character will be the one to get her favor.

The controversial part of this chapter was probably the lack of dogs. :P But I have faith Martin will make up for that in a later chapter.

[lojzelote]

I didn't think it was controversial at all, but I thought that the scrapping of the five-year gap was painfully felt. It was much the same with Mercy, really, but I found that chapter much more entertaining, so my reaction was less meh.

I wonder if the difference in behaviour in AFfC/ADwD vs TWoW is the same for the rest of major characters. There's a chance that the progression of Tyrion, Jon, and Dany will seem more natural due to things they have gone through in ADwD (i.e.,Tyrion's drunken self-pity and dark thoughts/ the psychological effects of the assassination and the likely blowup at the Wall/ Dany's fire&blood resolution) but I'm kind of afraid what Bran will be like when we meet him next. A nine-year-old should act very differently from a fourteen-year-old. :dunno:

[Lord Damian]

That's not my read at all. Old Sansa would have ben absolutely smitten by Hairy the Hair and she would have been crushed at what he said. Sansa/Alayne takes it in stride, she knows she's better than him and she, with Petyr's advice, plays him like a violin. Old Sansa would have given him her favor (and swooned while she did so), Sansa/Alayne doesn't. She knows that he's her's whenever she says. Sansa/Alayne is learning quickly just how powerful she is.

I hope you are right and i am wrong but it struck me as she kind of fell for him a little when he appologizes.

[Gertrude]

The only thing I found controversial is that she seems to be a completely different character.

All of a sudden she isn't stupid anymore?

She was never stupid, just immature and scared. She's always been clever no matter what Joff and Cersei said about her. I can almost see why you'd think so if you're just comparing her to the Sansa from the first book, but she really has been using her brain since then to survive. She's been learning from her mistakes and soaking up lessons from those around her. I wouldn't call the Sansa we first meet stupid, just sheltered and ignorant of the darker nature of people

I also wouldn't call her a genius or master now. She's just a girl with a slightly above average intelligence that's been tempered with some hard experience. I imagine intelligence is not something highly valued by most, so the fact that she's not afraid to hide it is another thing that might make her stand out in this regard.

[BitsOfBrains]

She was never stupid, just immature and scared.

I guess I call her stupid because I really want to like her and the alternative to saying she is stupid is saying she sold out her entire family for Joffrey and Cerseis approval.

Its either stupid or a disloyal traitor who deeply damaged her house with her betrayal, and I would prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Pablius]

I think we lack a lot of data and context to judge the character state of mind or intents, she could be playing them all, she could be 100% loyal to LF, we don't fully know

I´m not a big fan of Sansa, she has been an narrator more than a protagonist with much agency, a victim not a heroine, and quite stupid to this point, it is somewhat surprising to see her try to play the game, I guess LF lessons are working, good for her

Its good to see her actually do stuff, I hope it is evil stuff, I believe it would make the character much more interesting if she remains loyal to LF to the end, whatever it is

The chapter is not at the same level of "Mercy", with all it´s darkness and multiple levels of interpretations (the play within the play, the girl pretending to be a girl pretending to be a rape victim, etc), but it set up the scenario for many possible developments and shows what´s going on in the Vale

[midi]

I guess I call her stupid because I really want to like her and the alternative to saying she is stupid is saying she sold out her entire family for Joffrey and Cerseis approval.

Its either stupid or a disloyal traitor who deeply damaged her house with her betrayal, and I would prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Because, you know, it's not like any other young smart girl has ever made mistakes when being pressured by psychopaths? oh, wait...

[Mikkel]

If this was supposed to be controversial, color me disappointed and/or jaded. Because meh. It was okay, and I'm predictably torn between liking that Sansa is taking charge and showing initiative, and disliking what it's turning her into.

This conflict is As It Should Be™, of course. We also see a bit of a backslide (IMO) in Sansa's character, towards the snotty, spoiled girl she used to be, in her ridiculing some of the more unfortunate knights (so they're ugly or not charming, is that a crime?), which I find profoundly unsympathetic. I understand she's still a teenager, so it's perhaps not surprising, but still - I thought you'd gotten smarter than that, Sansa.

Oh and it's a chapter with LF in it where he didn't die, get hurt or even just humbled the tiniest bit (quite the opposite, in fact, the little shit is rolling in gold, metaphorically speaking) so I kinda feel obliged to dislike it on those grounds alone.