Alternate History: What is Bloodraven had been killed during the Battle of Redgrass Field

[Ratmancampidori]

What if, during Bittersteels first battle with Bloodraven Aegor Rivers had killed Bloodraven?

[Lion of the West]

I don't know if it would change all that much during the First Blackfyre Rebellion, due to Daemon already being dead alongside his present heirs and Prince Baelor coming up with his Dornishmen and Stormlanders while Maekar holds the main battle line. But I can definietly see both the Second and Third Blackfyre Rebellions having much more success with Bloodraven out of the picture. Perhaps enough to even put a Blackfyre on the throne with two of the three great, to my eyes, Targaryen champions gone.

[Dorian Martell]

nothing would change as the author would find another way to stymie the bastardfyres and find another teacher for bran and the

rest of the story would continue along as usual

[Ratmancampidori]

The first Blackfyre rebellion would definitely happen the same way, it would just end with one more casualty.

Bloodraven being dead would be both a boon to the Blackfyres and a horrible loss. Bloodravens short term pragmatism encouraged people to abandon the Targaryens and see the Blackfyres as the only option, meaning many loyalists could have been won over instead of alienated with a different hand.

I think Maekar would have become Hand after the death of Baelor, stopping future Blackfyre rebellions from happening.

[Dorian Martell]

The first Blackfyre rebellion would definitely happen the same way, it would just end with one more casualty.

Bloodraven being dead would be both a boon to the Blackfyres and a horrible loss. Bloodravens short term pragmatism encouraged people to abandon the Targaryens and see the Blackfyres as the only option, meaning many loyalists could have been won over instead of alienated with a different hand.

I think Maekar would have become Hand after the death of Baelor, stopping future Blackfyre rebellions from happening.

Probably not. the author has a specific story and plot written, and everything would continue the same, with another character taking over Brynden's roles.

[Ratmancampidori]

Probably not. the author has a specific story and plot written, and everything would continue the same, with another character taking over Brynden's role.

Were talking about alternate history. Not the chances of GRRM picking another character to fill Bloodravens role.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

Probably not. the author has a specific story and plot written, and everything would continue the same, with another character taking over Brynden's roles.

You are aware this is an alternate history right?

[Dorian Martell]

You are aware this is an alternate history right?

Yes, and the author is still the author, who wrote a very detailed and specific story, who also frowns on fan fiction, so if we are rewriting one part, why not all of it, completely, because that is the only way it will work. So remove a major character, with a 125 year lifespan, who influences the story from beginning to end. Either it ends the same way as the author intended or it is a different story the author didn't write. Take your pick

[Ratmancampidori]

Yes, and the author is still the author, who wrote a very detailed and specific story, who also frowns on fan fiction, so if we are rewriting one part, why not all of it, completely, because that is the only way it will work. So remove a major character, with a 125 year lifespan, who influences the story from beginning to end. Either it ends the same way as the author intended or it is a different story the author didn't write. Take your pick

I really think this isn't your type of topic. I strongly recommend going on to a different one.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

Yes, and the author is still the author, who wrote a very detailed and specific story, who also frowns on fan fiction, so if we are rewriting one part, why not all of it, completely, because that is the only way it will work. So remove a major character, with a 125 year lifespan, who influences the story from beginning to end. Either it ends the same way as the author intended or it is a different story the author didn't write. Take your pick

Surely you are also aware that we as fans are free to speculate on what one change could make to the events that character was pivotal to such as the Blakcfyre rebellion for Bloodraven.

Yes the author wrote the story the way he did, and yes he frowns on fan fiction, but do you see anyone writing a story from this? No. We are merely speculating.

[Dorian Martell]

no, it is re-writing.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Is the Author the same in this alternate history?

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

no, it is re-writing

We are merely speculating what could be different if such a change happened. Perhaps that is re-writing, but at the same point in time, why do you come onto such threads if this is all you are going to say?

[Red Tiger]

Probably not. the author has a specific story and plot written, and everything would continue the same, with another character taking over Brynden's roles.

So cynical. So dry. So true.

[Aemond's Eye]

Yes, and the author is still the author, who wrote a very detailed and specific story, who also frowns on fan fiction, so if we are rewriting one part, why not all of it, completely, because that is the only way it will work. So remove a major character, with a 125 year lifespan, who influences the story from beginning to end. Either it ends the same way as the author intended or it is a different story the author didn't write. Take your pick

One of the main reasons GRRM frowns on fanfic is because of the Marion Zimmer Bradley controversy. Alternate histories aren't likely to take play there. (Another is because he views his characters as people, and not just pawns in a story.)

I don't care for fanfic, but I do indulge in "what ifs" on the historical front. Not just in ASOIAF, but in history in real life. I like to analyze why things turned out as they did, and what motivated the people in the stories.

Closest thing to fanfic I care for, other than AARs from the CKII mod.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

One of the main reasons GRRM frowns on fanfic is because of the Marion Zimmer Bradley controversy. Alternate histories aren't likely to take play there. (Another is because he views his characters as people, and not just pawns in a story.)

I don't care for fanfic, but I do indulge in "what ifs" on the historical front. Not just in ASOIAF, but in history in real life. I like to analyze why things turned out as they did, and what motivated the people in the stories.

Closest thing to fanfic I care for, other than AARs from the CKII mod.

This.

[Red Tiger]

One of the main reasons GRRM frowns on fanfic is because of the Marion Zimmer Bradley controversy. Alternate histories aren't likely to take play there. (Another is because he views his characters as people, and not just pawns in a story.)

I don't care for fanfic, but I do indulge in "what ifs" on the historical front. Not just in ASOIAF, but in history in real life. I like to analyze why things turned out as they did, and what motivated the people in the stories.

Closest thing to fanfic I care for, other than AARs from the CKII mod.

Can somebody elaborate on this? I don't know what this is.

[Aemond's Eye]

Can somebody elaborate on this? I don't know what this is.

http://www.jimchines.com/2010/05/mzb-vs-fanfiction/

http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html

Basically, if a fan was to write a fan fiction piece that resembled what Martin was working on it could have ramifications on whether Martin could get it published. Worst case scenario.

[Beorn Snow]

It´d be very interesting seeing as Bloodraven was a very effective and feared master of whisperers. The old blackfyre supporters would be less fearless with perhaps a succesful rebellion taking place. Their houses are still minor and growing lesser after the loss, like f.x. the Osgreys being typical Blackfyre supporters. Old family that seeks to gain lost influence (but "lost" is the key word, the Targ supporters are stronger).

I think that with Aerys I as king and in absence of Bloodraven as a hand the Blackfyres and golden company have a decent chance. Mayhaps Maekar is hand.

[Ratmancampidori]

It´d be very interesting seeing as Bloodraven was a very effective and feared master of whisperers. The old blackfyre supporters would be less fearless with perhaps a succesful rebellion taking place. Their houses are still minor and growing lesser after the loss, like f.x. the Osgreys being typical Blackfyre supporters. Old family that seeks to gain lost influence (but "lost" is the key word, the Targ supporters are stronger).

I think that with Aerys I as king and in absence of Bloodraven as a hand the Blackfyres and golden company have a decent chance. Mayhaps Maekar is hand.

I actually think with Maekar as hand, Westeros would be much better off. Bloodravens policies were one of the catalists for continued rebellions.