Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 So as we all know "Robert's Rebellion" was led by Robert Baratheon, the Lord of Storm's End, Lord Paramount of the Stormlands joined by the Starks, Tullys, Arryns, and (theoretically) the Lannisters. Now, the Starks, Arryns and Lannisters were all kings of their respective territories before the Targaryen Conquest when they were REDUCED to lordships, so as a matter of course it is understandable that they would eventually rebel, but the Baratheons were bastards RAISED to the lordship of Storm's End, they had NOTHING if not for the Targaryens, which makes it just a little assholey and dishonorable for them to overthrow the Targaryens over minor slights. We aren't used to weighing actions based on what our ancestors were doing three centuries ago but we are talking about a feudal society, ie: no one has anything if not for their ancestors. Now Robert was an idiot who thought with his cock and didn't really care about honor but it seems Stannis, he of the iron will who cannot be reasoned with, should have stayed loyal as a matter of honor (yes he gives Jon a speech about how hard it was for him but at the end of the day he chose treason). Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 which makes it just a little assholey and dishonorable for them to overthrow the Targaryens over minor slights. Minor slights? Aerys wanted Robert dead, along with Ned. Jon Aryn called the banners, not Robert. They just used Robert's Targaryen ancestry as a reason to put him at the fore front for the Throne if they should win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Right off the bat you're wrong, Jon Arryn was the first to rebel and de facto leader until the trident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerenee90 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Wars have been started over less.I'm not sure Robert (or anyone at this point) was planning to overthrow the entire Targaryen dynasty. Robert was mad that Lyanna was taken, the Starks were mad that Lyanna was taken, and then instead of Aerys being like, 'oh hey I'm sorry about my son kidnapping That girl' he kills Rickard and Brandon. And tells Jon Arryn to turn over Robert and Ned.What were they supposed to do at that point? 'Sorry boys but the Mad King said I have to surrender you both' doesn't seem very Jon Arryn-esque. While it may seem like Robert went to war because he was pissed and sulking over Lyanna and Rhaegar, I really don't see how he had any other choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Aerys asked for The heir of Storms Ends head, killed his best friends father & brother for no reason & His prophecy obsessed son kidnapped his betrothed... Good solid reasons for rebellion for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Overthrowing the targaryens no matter what house you are is the most idiotic thing you can do. Targaryens were viewed as rulers that couldn't be over throwed, blood of dragons and God's. They're was stability in their rule (unless they fought each other) because they're power was viewed higher than the other lords. When you break that you're immediately saying "well if we can take the 7 kingdoms, so can you". The supposed power balance is completely destroyed. Succession is screwed up. Even renly used RR as reasoning for his claim. My point is proved since the aftermath of Roberts rule was completely disastrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Honour is just a polite fiction to keep the wheels turning, when shit needs to get done it gets done regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Right off the bat you're wrong, Jon Arryn was the first to rebel and de facto leader until the trident.Yes Jon Arryn calls the banners, but Robert gladly takes up the mantle of the cause.Wars have been started over less.I'm not sure Robert (or anyone at this point) was planning to overthrow the entire Targaryen dynasty. Robert was mad that Lyanna was taken, the Starks were mad that Lyanna was taken, and then instead of Aerys being like, 'oh hey I'm sorry about my son kidnapping That girl' he kills Rickard and Brandon. And tells Jon Arryn to turn over Robert and Ned.What were they supposed to do at that point? 'Sorry boys but the Mad King said I have to surrender you both' doesn't seem very Jon Arryn-esque. While it may seem like Robert went to war because he was pissed and sulking over Lyanna and Rhaegar, I really don't see how he had any other choice.Well I think it's well established that Robert was out for any Targaryen blood he can get, as witnessed by his being glib about the death of Rhaegar's infant daughter and (what he thinks is) Rhaegar's child son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 DFTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Not even talking about Robert´s head being demanded... it's not like Orys was Aegon's room service guy, he LEAD the entire Targaryen army, he was the overall field commander while Aegon and his sisters rode the winged serpents... it's not like he didn't deserve what Aegon gave him... And Targaryens are the blood of Valyria, but not the blood of Gods... that was actually the Durrandons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Honour is just a polite fiction to keep the wheels turning, when shit needs to get done it gets done regardless.A sentiment Robert no doubt shared but Stannis lives and dies by his honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Not even talking about Robert´s head being demanded... it's not like Orys was Aegon's room service guy, he LEAD the entire Targaryen army, he was the overall field commander while Aegon and his sisters rode the winged serpents... it's not like he didn't deserve what Aegon gave him... And Targaryens are the blood of Valyria, not blood of Gods... that was actually the DurrandonsYes I know, but still Orys held command because Aegon gave it to him, amd no one said the Targaryens were gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 DFTT.DFFT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 And Targaryens are the blood of Valyria, not blood of Gods... that was actually the DurrandonsSorry, I just remember cersei saying this in one of her chapters when she was thinking about rhaegar, but it's been a while since i read AFFC so I'm probably wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendry_Goldeneyes Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The things i do for love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 A sentiment Robert no doubt shared but Stannis lives and dies by his honor. When it suits Stannis. Is it honorable to force your new religion on people and burn them at the stake? Is it honorable to bend the Night's Watch to your will despite their oath to not take sides in Westeros? Is it honorable to use black magic to kill your brother while he is unarmed in his own tent? Stannis is just like every other Baratheon, out for himself but like to pretend that he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Sorry, I just remember cersei saying this in one of her chapters when she was thinking about rhaegar, but it's been a while since i read AFFC so I'm probably wrong Don't be, i got what you were trying to say :) For Cersei and a lot of people the blood of Valyria may well be godlike, it just isn't on a textual level like the tales of Durran and Elenei (Durrandons House) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 DFFT?DFTT, "Don't feed the Tyrells." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yes I know, but still Orys held command because Aegon gave it to him, amd no one said the Targaryens were gods. I was explaining the gods part to Balerion the kitten... Yes Aegon gave him and Orys deserved every land and title he got, and the Baratheons were fiercely loyal to Targaryens and their best allies for centuries... but the Lyonel and Robert rebellions (the only exceptions) were started by the Targs so... no fault there, they paid their loyalty with broken marriages and head demands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 I was explaining the gods part to Balerion the kitten...Yes Aegon gave him and Orys deserved every land and title he got, and the Baratheons were fiercely loyal to Targaryens and their best allies for centuries... but the Lyonel and Robert rebellions (the only exceptions) were started by the Targs so... no fault there, they paid their loyalty with broken marriages and head demandsMy bad, I missed Balerion's comment when I read through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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