Alternate History: What if the Andals had been driven out of the Vale?

[Ratmancampidori]

What would have happened if the Andal Invasion of the Vale had been defeated by House Royce?

[The silver dragon]

military technology changes.

with westerous no longer being know for knights.

children of the forest live.

the first man kingdom's integrate iron weapons by trading with the vale.

and the mudd's still rule the river lands, so it's becomes impossible for the hard hand to conquer it.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

military technology changes.

with westerous no longer being know for knights.

children of the forest live.

the first man kingdom's integrate iron weapons by trading with the vale.

and the mudd's still rule the river lands, so it's becomes impossible for the hard hand to conquer it.

Not necessairly true the andals could've tried to invade elsewhere and tried again with the vale

[TheSovereignGrave]

I'd wager that the Andals probably would've still taken over Westeros; though it would've taken longer. The Vale would probably be something like what the North is today; a region that follows the Old Gods and identifies as First Men. Though I'd imagine that the religion of the Sistermen would still be practiced today, since they may not have been forcibly converted to the Seven.

[The silver dragon]

Not necessairly true the andals could've tried to invade elsewhere and tried again with the vale

you are severely over estimating the andals sea fairing technology, back thousands of years ago.

ancient andols was somewhere around braavos, if you look at a map you would see that the vale is the nearest place to braavos.

whether they could have sailed anywhere with out a foot hold in the vale is doubtful.

[Olligarchy]

Had the Andals initial invasion of the Vale been driven back, it largely depends on how badly they get beaten on how they'll proceed. If House Royce and the rest of the Petty Kings inhabiting the Vale absolutely wreck them, they might decide that Seven Pointed Star or no it's smarter to just go home and stick with it, but if the defeat is light enough they'll probably just sail a bit further south to the present day Crownlands and start their conquests with the Stormlands and move onto the Reach, Riverlands and Westerlands from there with Vale and the North being tougher nuts to crack.

It's a possibility that the Vale might survive as a haven for First Men and the Old Gods, but that would assume that House Royce could unite the region under one King and effectively rule and defend it from future attacks.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

you are severely over estimating the andals sea fairing technology, back thousands of years ago.

ancient andols was somewhere around braavos, if you look at a map you would see that the vale is the nearest place to braavos.

whether they could have sailed anywhere with out a foot hold in the vale is doubtful.

Indeed I might be, but at the same time, considering how advanced the andals were compared to the first men, there is a small chance that they could've invaded elsewhere

[joluoto2]

The Andals had a strong foothold already. If Royce and the First Men won the Andals would bend the knee and continue to assimilate the Vale. The conversion to the Seven was already ongoing, but would have slowed down considerably. So Andal Culture spread would have just slowed down.

[TheSovereignGrave]

Had the Andals initial invasion of the Vale been driven back, it largely depends on how badly they get beaten on how they'll proceed. If House Royce and the rest of the Petty Kings inhabiting the Vale absolutely wreck them, they might decide that Seven Pointed Star or no it's smarter to just go home and stick with it, but if the defeat is light enough they'll probably just sail a bit further south to the present day Crownlands and start their conquests with the Stormlands and move onto the Reach, Riverlands and Westerlands from there with Vale and the North being tougher nuts to crack.

Nah, I think they'd go with the latter option even if they're soundly defeated. After all, it's not like there's just one Andal ruler who's making the decisions; and it's better to try and sail down to the Crownlands than to stay in Essos and become slaves to the Valyrians.

[The silver dragon]

The Andals had a strong foothold already. If Royce and the First Men won the Andals would bend the knee and continue to assimilate the Vale. The conversion to the Seven was already ongoing, but would have slowed down considerably. So Andal Culture spread would have just slowed down.

if it slows down enough it might allow the other kingdom's the time. to integrate the iron making technology.

thus eliminating the andals big advantage.

[Lord of the Vale]

Westeros would still be rulled by the first men, but they would begin trading with the Andals after a wile and sone after that you would have Andals brougth over to be selswords and given smal lordships and in the end westeros i almost the same with the exseption that the LP would be first men

[Lion of the West]

I don't think it would have been much of a difference. The whole history is one of defeat, after defeat, after defeat, after defeat, and so on, for the Andals but for same weird reason the victorious First Men submitted to the Andals. I think the same would have happened in the Vale.

[The silver dragon]

I don't think it would have been much of a difference. The whole history is one of defeat, after defeat, after defeat, after defeat, and so on, for the Andals but for same weird reason the victorious First Men submitted to the Andals. I think the same would have happened in the Vale.

at the national level yes.

no untied first man kingdom except the river lands ever fell to the andals.

but at the minor level it seems they could not stop their spread.

with the kingdoms that still held their lands, it seems they could not out right beat them badly enough to drive out the andal warlords who infested their lands.

[joluoto2]

if it slows down enough it might allow the other kingdom's the time. to integrate the iron making technology.

thus eliminating the andals big advantage.

I'm pretty sure the other kingdoms had plenty of time to integrate iton making technology and did it to some degree in the timeline already. the Andal conquest was a slow process that lasted centuries, wouldn't take that long to adopt iron and steel once the genie was out ot the bottle. (Of course it would be good if we knew for sure there are othwer sources of iron in Westeros than the Iron Islands).

[Olligarchy]

Nah, I think they'd go with the latter option even if they're soundly defeated. After all, it's not like there's just one Andal ruler who's making the decisions; and it's better to try and sail down to the Crownlands than to stay in Essos and become slaves to the Valyrians.

True that, though what I really mean is that if the disparate Andal warlords try to take the Vale without care for casualties and the First Men trounce them enough times, there might not be enough Andals to move onto greener pastures.

Though I am always astounded by the fact that they chose to land on one of the bleakest and harshest landscapes in Westeros... rather than the fertile river estuary just a few hundred miles south.

[Pod The Rod]

True that, though what I really mean is that if the disparate Andal warlords try to take the Vale without care for casualties and the First Men trounce them enough times, there might not be enough Andals to move onto greener pastures.

Though I am always astounded by the fact that they chose to land on one of the bleakest and harshest landscapes in Westeros... rather than the fertile river estuary just a few hundred miles south.

Bleak and Harsh? What? This isn't the Mountains of the Moon we're talking about, the Vale itself fronts upon the sea, and it's the most fertile acreage in Westeros.

[Lion of the West]

at the national level yes.

no untied first man kingdom except the river lands ever fell to the andals.

but at the minor level it seems they could not stop their spread.

with the kingdoms that still held their lands, it seems they could not out right beat them badly enough to drive out the andal warlords who infested their lands.

Possibly, but the impression I've got from the WoIaF is that the Andals have their asses kicked 9 out of 10 times outside the Vale and for some reason the others still decides to pretty much submit to the Andals instead of driving them into the sea.

[Pod The Rod]

The impression I got was that victories were won quite often by the First Men, but the Andals just kept coming and won by superior numbers and tech.

[Lion of the West]

The impression I got was that victories were won quite often by the First Men, but the Andals just kept coming and won by superior numbers and tech.

But wouldn't that also result in battles being won by the Andals? Despite the Andals winning this conflict, we don't hear anything about their victories.

[Pod The Rod]

But wouldn't that also result in battles being won by the Andals? Despite the Andals winning this conflict, we don't hear anything about their victories.

Sure we do. Seven Stars in the Vale, the last stand of Tristifer Mudd in the Riverlands, pretty much every time the children tried to help the First Men.