Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Presuming R+L=J and that Jon is not just some tramp's kid Ned knocked up in the war, and especially since if R and L married Jon is a trueborn Stark in the maternal line and a dragonlord in the paternal line, being that Ned KNOWS the Night's Watch is a dying order populated largely by criminals, doesn't Ned owe his sister's kid better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 does he only owe him better because of his potential lineage? as opposed to him being Ned's own bastard? Besides if it is R + L = J Ned obviously never intended for Robert's line to lose the throne or to support Jon. His best bet was to raise Jon as his son and find a place in the world for him. Robert making him Hand forced Ned's hand (no pun intended) to come up with a place for Jon, the nights watch was the obvious choice as he couldn't stay with Catelyn, besides it was Jon's choice/decision he never HAD to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 The Night's Watch is still an ancient, honorable order where skill and bravery are rewarded, and it's the best way short of killing him to make sure Jon does not continue the Targaryen line or get caught up in another Blackfyre rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 If it was up I can bet that Jon would had never ended up at the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 It's arguably the only way he could be safe if his parentage was discovered. On the flip side, it's a shitty thing to force someone to swear their life to a life-long order, celibate order before telling them their heritage. Note: By force to swear their life, I don't mean Ned forced Jon to join. Thus that he won't tell him his parents until he takes the Black (if possibly ever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 It's arguably the only way he could be safe if his parentage was discovered. On the flip side, it's a shitty thing to force someone to swear their life to a life-long order, celibate order before telling them their heritage. Note: By force to swear their life, I don't mean Ned forced Jon to join. Thus that he won't tell him his parents until he takes the Black (if possibly ever).Now, that really is a crappy thing to do, letting a 15 year old swear his life away without even telling him who he is, he could have just said, "Hey Jon, you're Rhaegar Targaryen's kid by my dead sister, I said you were mine so Robert wouldn't kill you, have fun on the Wall." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Bad move if he cares about Jon safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 does he only owe him better because of his potential lineage? as opposed to him being Ned's own bastard? Besides if it is R + L = J Ned obviously never intended for Robert's line to lose the throne or to support Jon. His best bet was to raise Jon as his son and find a place in the world for him. Robert making him Hand forced Ned's hand (no pun intended) to come up with a place for Jon, the nights watch was the obvious choice as he couldn't stay with Catelyn, besides it was Jon's choice/decision he never HAD to join.To be blunt, yes it matters. We're talking about a feudal society here where parentage is crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 To be blunt, yes it matters. We're talking about a feudal society here where parentage is crucial. Im saying if Jon is a Targ Ned wants to keep it secret but does he owe him more than he would owe his own son? - would Ned view it this way? Besides what safer place was him than the Nights Watch? (safe in his identity should stay secret and even if its revealed bc he has sworn to the Watch he should be safe from Robert as Aemon was) Literally any other position in 7K would leave potential for Jon to lead a rebellion if he is a Targ. By your reasoning there is nowhere better/safer for Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Could of sent him to foster at White Harbor or Bear Island I suppose. At least for a couple of years, I don't think the Mormonts would mind or Manderly, got some single girls there too. But the Starks are big on the wall, and maybe Ned just figured Jon would end up there in the long run anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Now, that really is a crappy thing to do, letting a 15 year old swear his life away without even telling him who he is, he could have just said, "Hey Jon, you're Rhaegar Targaryen's kid by my dead sister, I said you were mine so Robert wouldn't kill you, have fun on the Wall." I don't think it was a crappy thing to do. If Ned had forced and/or told Jon to go to the Wall then yes, but it was Jon's request. If he hadn't joined the NW then Ned never would have told him about his lineage. He was "protecting" Jon but not telling him or anyone else about who his parents were. He only offered to tell him who his mother was when Ned knew Jon would be taking the black and no longer have a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Ned was about to spend a lot of time Robert. Robert had a fetish for killing any Targ who may oppose him. Jon was either going to be near Robert or people close enough to the a Rebellion to have a chance to figure it out and put his life in danger. Or he'd be stuck in Winterfell with Catelyn who was on edge and not very fond of Jon.Option 3 was go to the wall with your Uncle. He'd excel there. Be safe from Robert. Be out of Catelyn's way. It's his choice so he isn't being forced. It just makes sense in a pinch.Worst case scenario Jon becomes important, The Lord of Winterfell offers a hundred men for Jon and makes a strong case that Jon did not know who he really was when he made the oaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magic713 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Bad move if he cares about Jon safety. To be fair, as far as dangers are concerned, the Others were a very recent problem, and Ned probably thought that his brother, Benjen, would make sure Jon would be safe since he was the First Ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I don't think it was a crappy thing to do. If Ned had forced and/or told Jon to go to the Wall then yes, but it was Jon's request. If he hadn't joined the NW then Ned never would have told him about his lineage. He was "protecting" Jon but not telling him or anyone else about who his parents were. He only offered to tell him who his mother was when Ned knew Jon would be taking the black and no longer have a claim. What kind of dad let a 15 year kid do a life long oath... Hasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 It was Jon's choice and good for him, because he would probably be killed at the RW if he stayed in WF...About hiding him from Robert and not bring him to KL, pfffft like Bob would suspect his true parentage, c'mon he wouldn't give enough of a crap to see the reality, it's not like Jon looks exactly like any of his parents... he looks like Ned juniorBob wanted to hunt, drink and die early... heck Jon could have been with Bob on his hunts all the time and the man wouldn't even notice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 It was Jon's choice and good for him, because he would probably be killed at the RW if he stayed in WF... About hiding him from Robert and not bring him to KL, pfffft like Bob would suspect his true parentage, c'mon he wouldn't give enough of a crap to see the reality, it's not like Jon looks exactly like any of his parents... he looks like Ned junior Bob wanted to hunt, drink and die early... heck Jon could have been with Bob on his hunts all the time and the man wouldn't even notice... He actually (should) look a lot like Lyanna, given the constant Jon-Arya and Arya-Lyanna comparisons. The easy explanation of course is that Ned is Lyanna's brother, so of course one of his kids could look like her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 He actually (should) look a lot like Lyanna, given the constant Jon-Arya and Arya-Lyanna comparisons. The easy explanation of course is that Ned is Lyanna's brother, so of course one of his kids could look like her. Exactly, Bob can't smell Targs... the kid looks like Ned's clone, let alone his son... Again, the boy could have been Robert's squire... and he actually would've loved the kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the one eared cat Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Agree with what everyone else has said:It was Jon's choice, Ned didn't force him. He raised his children + foster children (Theon + Jon) to make their own choices and do what they thought best for them: raising Robb to be a lord, Theon to an extent, too; arming all of his sons to be good fighters to give them the best chance of getting a place in a household guard/lord/lead an army/whatever military career they choose; taking Sansa to KL and all the "ladylike" things she's meant to do; letting Arya learn to fight despite it not being "ladylike". Ned raised them all to be independent and choose their own lot in life.Safe place for Jon if Robert ever did find out about his parents - the Watch takes no part.The Watch is a place where Jon could rise up through the ranks and earn a true place without ever having to worry about being a bastard, or ever being prejudiced or discounted because of his supposed parentage (in theory, at least). He would likely never hold lands in the North anyway because he's baseborn, but in the Watch he'd do well.Benjen was (meant to be) there to watch over him if he ever got himself into trouble.It's not like Jon didn't know what the Watch was like - he was warned by Ned/Tyrion/Benjen, it's not like he was rushed into an uneducated decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 The question is... how would Bob find out about his true parentage? Jon looks more like a son of The Ned than any other, Robert doesn't give a crap about Aemon let alone a targ blooded kid who looks 300% Stark... I'm already seeing the concern on Ned's face... "hmmmm i think Robert can smell targaryens, such is his hate" Funny is the fact Bob looks more a Targaryen with his 1/4 blood than Jon... and Bob doesn't look 2% Targ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I would have found him a position in a Northern house instead of letting him head to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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