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What is the correct Targaryen line of succession to the Iron Throne? [spoilers if you haven't read all five ASOIAF volumes]


MaesterMan

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All the various posts bout (f)Aegon and back history TWOIAF has gotten me wondering about what the (legitimist Targaryen) line of succession to the Iron Throne of Westeros of the year 300AC might be? Leaving out known (to us, the readers) bastards (Myrcella and Tommen, Edric Storm, Gendry, Mya Stone, for example) a first surmise covering all legitimate lines descended from Aegon I The Conqueror might be:



1. (f)Aegon (if not a hoax and really the son of Prince Rhaegar by Princess Elia Martell)


2. Jon Snow (if in in fact the legitimate son of Prince Rhaegar by a 2nd polygamous marriage with Lyanna Stark, which theory I do subscribe to, but we don't know yet.....)


3. Daenerys (great-granddaughter of Aegon V through King Jaehaerys II and Queen Shaera)


4. Stannis (great-grandson of Aegon V through Princess Rhaelle)


5. Shireen (only child of Stannis)


6. any descendants of Vaella the Simple, daughter of Daeron Prince of Summerhall, eldest brother of Aegon V


7. any descendants of Maegor son of Aerion Brightflame, 2nd eldest brother of Aegon V, by Aerion's cousin/wife Daenora (or Maegor himself, if still alive at almost 70)


8. Selwyn Tarth, Evenstar of Tarth (if the son of a putative daughter of Princess Daella, elder sister of Aegon V, by Daella's putative husband, Ser Duncan the Tall, prior his joining the Kingsguard)


9. Brienne of Tarth (daughter of Selwyn)


10. any siblings/nephews/nieces of Selwyn Tarth


11. descendants of Princess Rhae, younger sister of Aegon V


12. Doran Martell (descendant of Princess Daenerys Targaryen, sister of King Daeron II, Aegon's paternal grandfather)


13. Trystane Martell (Doran's only surviving son)


14. Arianne Martell (Dornan's only daughter, since Iron Throne doesn't recognize female primogeniture the way that Dorne does, thus Arianne would come after Trystane; Elia would have come after Oberyn, despite her being the elder, too)


15. any living Martell cousins descended from Princess Daenerys and Prince Maron Martell's marriage


16. any legitimate living descendants of Viserys Plumm (himself probably not legitimate, but treated as such at least officially, the eldest "legitimate" son of Princess Elaena Targaryen).


17. any legitimate living descendants of Robin Penrose, Elaena's next son


18/19/20. any legitimate living descendants of Elaena's daughters, in order, Laena, Jocelyn, and Joy Penrose


19. legitimate living descendants of Princess Baela Targaryen and Alyn "Oakenfist" Velaryon (assuming that Baela was the elder twin sister)


20. legitimate living descendants of Princess Rhaena Targaryen (Baela's (younger??) twin) and Garmund Hightower


21. legitimate living descendants of Princess Aerea Targaryen


22 legitimate living descendants of Aerea's (probably younger) twin Princess Rhalla Targaryen


23. legitimate living descendants of any possible third marriage of Aerea and Rhalla's mother Princess/Queen Rhaena Targaryen.



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Didn't the Dance of the Dragons... or post sorting out of it hamper womens ability to inherit, placing Daenarys after all possible male claimants?

Or am I remembering something wrong?

not really.

but it's generally a lot easier for a male claimant to get the support of his lords then a female one.

an in the end that underlined part makes all the difference...

unless you have you own powerful army.

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not really.

but it's generally a lot easier for a male claimant to get the support of his lords then a female one.

an in the end that underlined part makes all the difference...

unless you have you own powerful army.

Well according to Andal succession it's true, but in all the succession crises we've only seen male claimants actually crowned... which might well mean that he Targaryens formally or not are not going to allow a female claimant to gain the throne.

Not that any of this matters with there being all of three potential Targaryens left, none of whom have been raised by the previous generation to respect said rule.

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The Baratheon's won't be in line, due to having taken part in the Rebellion.



The Tarths cannot be placed, becaue there are multiple ways they can descent from the Targaryens... Through Daella, through Rhae, through Vaella... Less possible, but not completely impossible, would be through Rhaelle or Maegor.




Selwyn Tarth most likely wasn't the son of Daella by Duncan the Tall... Where does Tarth come into play then? A female with Targaryen blood married into the Tarths. We just don't know who.


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Didn't the Dance of the Dragons... or post sorting out of it hamper womens ability to inherit, placing Daenarys after all possible male claimants?

Or am I remembering something wrong?

Spot on. Not only after all possible male claimants, but they are out completely. As well as any male descendants through the female line.

Which trims your list down quite a bit:

1. (f)Aegon (if not a hoax and really the son of Prince Rhaegar by Princess Elia Martell)

2. Jon Snow (if in in fact the legitimate son of Prince Rhaegar by a 2nd polygamous marriage with Lyanna Stark, which theory I do subscribe to, but we don't know yet.....)

3. any male descendants through the male line of Maegor son of Aerion Brightflame, 2nd eldest brother of Aegon V, by Aerion's cousin/wife Daenora (or Maegor himself, if still alive at almost 70)

That's the full extent of House Targaryen's heirs.

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Spot on. Not only after all possible male claimants, but they are out completely. As well as any male descendants through the female line.

Which trims your list down quite a bit:

1. (f)Aegon (if not a hoax and really the son of Prince Rhaegar by Princess Elia Martell)

2. Jon Snow (if in in fact the legitimate son of Prince Rhaegar by a 2nd polygamous marriage with Lyanna Stark, which theory I do subscribe to, but we don't know yet.....)

3. any male descendants through the male line of Maegor son of Aerion Brightflame, 2nd eldest brother of Aegon V, by Aerion's cousin/wife Daenora (or Maegor himself, if still alive at almost 70)

That's the full extent of House Targaryen's heirs.

I don't think that females are completely out the line of succession, they are behind all male claimants. Therefore the baratheons are behind Daenerys as a result of this.

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fAegon is a Blackfyre alright.



There was some foreshadowing in book 1.






Beyond the horse gate, plundered gods and stolen heroes loomed to either side of them. The forgotten deities of dead cities brandished their broken thunderbolts at the sky as Dany rode her silver past their feet. Stone kings looked down on her from their thrones, their faces chipped and stained, even their names lost in the mists of time. Lithe young maidens danced on marble plinths, draped only in flowers, or poured air from shattered jars. Monsters stood in the grass beside the road; black iron dragons with jewels for eyes, roaring griffins, manticores with their barbed tails poised to strike, and other beasts she could not name.

Black Iron dragons, immediately followed by Roaring griffin refers to fAegon and Jon Connington.



Connington's Coat of arms are Griffins


Black Iron dragon, refers to the Black dragon on a field of red of House Blackfyre.


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I don't think that females are completely out the line of succession, they are behind all male claimants. Therefore the baratheons are behind Daenerys as a result of this.

Archmaester Gyldayn:

In the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendents.

That is the official Targaryen law.

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Archmaester Gyldayn:

In the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendents.

That is the official Targaryen law.

A note: That would also remove any claim the Baratheons may have had from claims by their Targaryen kin, unless we go all the way back to Orys and count him as a legitimate brother to Aegon the Conqueror.

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A note: That would also remove any claim the Baratheons may have had from claims by their Targaryen kin, unless we go all the way back to Orys and count him as a legitimate brother to Aegon the Conqueror.

Of course.

If that wouldn't be some BS made up to placate the loyalists after Robert's Rebellion or Robert cared one whiff about Targaryen laws.

Robert was king because four regions agreed on that and the rest fell in line.

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Of course.

If that wouldn't be some BS made up to placate the loyalists after Robert's Rebellion or Robert cared one whiff about Targaryen laws.

Robert was king because four regions agreed on that and the rest fell in line.

True. I think we spend far too much time squabbling over some old and dusty scrolls held by Maesters on who is the 'rightful king' when not even the claimants we might support even know of these laws. I mean Daenarys and Jon certainly don't! Robert didn't care and Stannis is convinced that he is the King no matter what.

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Archmaester Gyldayn:

In the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendents.

That is the official Targaryen law.

It set a precedent yes, and yet when Baelor I died, there were people who genuinely believed that Daena should succeed him not Viserys. There is no official law, Viserys became King because Daena lacked support because she'd spent a decade in a vault.

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IMHO, George is trying replicate the ever-changing medieval laws of succession and precisely is trying describe a situation where enumerating a long royal succesion as the OP does is just not possible. For some positions most people would agree. For others, the answer it's just a "it depends".


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Wouldn't the descendants of the great bastards (Aegor, Brynden and Daemon) come before Doran Martell, as they were legitimized and son before daughter? (And then Sheiras descendants after the Martells)



I don't think any of them would have a serious claim. Just following the logic of this list...


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