walkingWITHcersei Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I always assumed Harry knew who Alyanne really is, but the new chapter disproves that idea and makes it obvious he's none to happy about it. So my question is why he would agree to the marriage at all? What does Waynwood have as leverage against him? He's a ward, and as the heir to the Vale he's a ward who would be welcomed by any house in the Vale. I wouldn't think he'd have any obligation whatsoever to honor an engagement brokered by the Waynwoods or anyone else for that matter. Even looked at from the Waynwood perspective why would they feel it's their right to make a pact for him, and why would they expect him to honor it? Ned never arranged a marriage for Theon. If Ned had the right to do so why wouldn't he have married Theon into a northern house when that could have the potential to keep the Ironborn from raiding northern villages in the future? This whole thing seems fishy to me, and you can argue Harry really knows her identity and insulted her publicly to hide that he knows, but does anyone think he's even half that smart? He struck me as being close to Hodor than LF in the brains dept. I guess you could argue he knew of the Waynwood debt issues and agreed bc he is grateful to the house for raising him, but again does anyone think he's the type to be grateful or sacrifice his feelings for anyone? I certainly don't believe that either. So why didn't he tell old lady Waynwood to shove it when she promised his hand to Alyanne? What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The marriage match from Harry's point makes no sense whatsoever unless there is a massive amount of money being transferred but at some point, Anya Waynewood, unlike on the HBO show would have to be let in on the secret of Sana/Allyane and I do not see Littlefinger doing this. It is too risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 It's a VERY RICH bastard, who's dad is lord Paramount of the Trident, Lord Protector of the Vale, Lord of Harrenhall and has important connections in KL.Also, it's very possible that the Waynwoods just wanted to humor LF and lure him in to a false sense of security; hence the importance of dragging Harry in to the tournament and getting Sansa to seduce him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 It's a VERY RICH bastard, who's dad is lord Paramount of the Trident, Lord Protector of the Vale, Lord of Harrenhall and has important connections in KL. Also, it's very possible that the Waynwoods just wanted to humor LF and lure him in to a false sense of security; hence the importance of dragging Harry in to the tournament and getting Sansa to seduce him. Yeah, I find it disheartening that the Vale, knowing how Littlefinger has gotten where he is by the good graces of house Lannister who is about the biggest enemy the Vale has is still alive and flourishing. You would think they would have more inside info on the major role Littlefinger played in betraying ned and Saving Cersei and her Bastards. Maybe Varys has a card or two to play in the Vale against "Littleshit" that will end his game permanently. Me myself, think Uncat will be his killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Yeah, I find it disheartening that the Vale, knowing how Littlefinger has gotten where he is by the good graces of house Lannister who is about the biggest enemy the Vale has is still alive and flourishing. You would think they would have more inside info on the major role Littlefinger played in betraying ned and Saving Cersei and her Bastards. Maybe Varys has a card or two to play in the Vale against "Littleshit" that will end his game permanently. Me myself, think Uncat will be his killer. I suspect something will happen during the tourney that would put several people on their guard against him. Maybe Sweetrobin will have an intense shaking fit during one of the jousts and Petyr will demand that he be given Sweetmilk to which Maester Colemon just loses his sh*t and yells that it's too dangerous, that he's already given him a lethal amount on his orders. Then Bronze Yohn appears and has his HA! I TOLD YOU SO! moment and LF gets the boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Another thing to note is that if you're somebody's ward, traditionally the warder had the right to marry their ward to whomever they pleased, so it may have nothing to do with Harry's agreement or not, but Lady Anya's approval.But I agree the most likely situation is that Lady Anya agreed to humor LF and lull him into a false sense of security before challenging him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittensRuleBeetsDrool Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I recall Sansa posing the exact same question to Littlefinger - why would Harry "the Heir" agree to marry a bastard? LF replies that she is the wealthy Lord Protector's bastard, and he's also been buying up Anya Waynwood's debts. I surmise that money is changing hands - quite a lot of money. There is also the fact that "Alayne" is Littlefinger's only child; maybe LF has been sweetening the deal with a promise to legitimize "Alayne" before the marriage, which would make her a major heiress. I think it is also very possible that Lady Waynwood knows far more than she is letting on and has her own agenda, which she is not telling Harry or LF. There was a hint in AFFC when Lady Waynwood is defending "Alayne" from Lyn Corbray's crass remarks - "the girl is young and gently bred, and has witnessed enough horrors" (paraphrased). It could be she's talking about Lysa's death, but "gently bred" makes me wonder. I wonder if Anya Waynwood - who knew Lysa Arryn, has seen Catelyn Tully, and might notice the family resemblance between "Alayne" and these women - at least suspects who Sansa is. I do not think Harry knows as much of what is going on as Lady Waynwood (possibly) does, however, or he wouldn't be rude enough to be discourteous to Sansa in front of her. This is a woman who is an absolute stickler for manners, and her ward is humiliating her by being rude to his hostess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Maybe Lady Anya just asked him to go along with it for now and he agreed because his relationship with her is good enough.It's too soon to really judge Harry. He's showing poor grace about the whole deal but it occurs to me that he could even be deliberately being a jerk to Alayne so that she will tell he father she does not want the marriage, so he could get out of it without the refusal coming from the Waynwood end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Vale Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittensRuleBeetsDrool Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 No matter the reasons, I do think there is something going on, because there is such a big deal made of Mya Stone not being able to marry Mychel Redfort, who is a younger son (and therefore not heir to anything). And even if Robert never formally acknowledged Mya, she's still very obviously a Baratheon bastard. "Alayne" is far wealthier, and a potential heiress, but Petyr Baelish is, by birth, a minor lord of dubious descent (and a big deal is always made of that, as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Vale Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 There is also the fact that "Alayne" is Littlefinger's only child; maybe LF has been sweetening the deal with a promise to legitimize "Alayne" before the marriage, which would make her a major heiress Actualy, she allredy is LF's heiress as he dose not have any truborn children or close kind to innherit him, so there is no need to legitimize her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Actualy, she allredy is LF's heiress as he dose not have any truborn children or close kind to innherit him, so there is no need to legitimize her. Nope. Currently she can't inherit at all and the Riverlands would revert to the Crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Vale Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Nope. Currently she can't inherit at all and the Riverlands would revert to the Crown.From the asoiaf wiki"A bastard may inherit if the father has no other trueborn children nor any other likely kin to follow him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 From the asoiaf wiki"A bastard may inherit if the father has no other trueborn children nor any other likely kin to follow him."Not automatically. The wiki is wrong. Or rather, imprecise. The Crown may consider the bastard if there is nobody else, but he has no right to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade of Sunlight Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 LF might have brokered the deal with Waynwood (Gold) and she nudged Harry into reluctantly accepting, which is why it is crucial for Sansa to seduce him. Having most lords of the vale in one place also allows little finger to broker more deals, ans the Winged Knights are a perfect way to remove a few important sons from their homes and close to his grasp.Finally, there is no certainty that LF expects (or wants) the betrothal to prevail, he might just be another play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Vale Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Not automatically. The wiki is wrong. Or rather, imprecise. The Crown may consider the bastard if there is nobody else, but he has no right to it.Alrigth, i did not know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 What does Waynwood have as leverage against him? He's a ward, and as the heir to the Vale he's a ward who would be welcomed by any house in the Vale. I wouldn't think he'd have any obligation whatsoever to honor an engagement brokered by the Waynwoods or anyone else for that matter. With Harry's parents dead, Waynwood is Harry's legal guardian, and stands in their place, with all attendant privileges. That includes the right to make betrothal arrangements. It doesn't matter that "he's a ward who would be welcomed by any house in the Vale"; he's Waynwood's ward, he doesn't pick. Ned never arranged a marriage for Theon. If Ned had the right to do so why wouldn't he have married Theon into a northern house when that could have the potential to keep the Ironborn from raiding northern villages in the future? Theon wasn't a ward, he was a hostage against Theon's actual family. Completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 From the asoiaf wiki"A bastard may inherit if the father has no other trueborn children nor any other likely kin to follow him." This is actually a very interesting debate. Does the crown grant the permission for bastards to inherit their parent's estate if they are an only child? if so what happens when a king dies and only has bastards? Who grants the permission then, which bastard gets the estate, does the High-Septon need to be consulted? Very interesting indeed... this may be a reason for LF to keep Mya around. As for Alayne, I have no doubt LF told Anya that Harry will wed a legitimized Alayne which would grant Harry Harrenhall (lol, the names sound alike, it is meant to be :P). So Harry will be lord of Harrenhall and the Heir to the Vale (and he'll be filthy rich, I have no doubt that the lavish feast in Winds was meant to show Harry what kind of opulence he'll get to enjoy if he sticks by LF's daughter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Also why would Littlefinger want to marry off the heir of Winterfell to Horrible Harry? Surprised he doesnt keep her for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 It is stated about the debts which LF uses as leverage over Lady Waynwood to get her to agree to the betrothal. Although Harry is heir presumptive to the Vale, he will be displaced by any of Robin's children, should he live long enough to wed and breed. Lady Waynwood is likely trying to improve Harry's lot in life by giving him a shot at lands and keep of his own, instead of just hanging around waiting for Robin to cark it. It is probable that Harry could have a shot at inheriting Harrenhal, but unlikely. This is actually a very interesting debate. Does the crown grant the permission for bastards to inherit their parent's estate if they are an only child? if so what happens when a king dies and only has bastards? Who grants the permission then, which bastard gets the estate, does the High-Septon need to be consulted? Very interesting indeed... this may be a reason for LF to keep Mya around. If all the Baratheons die, I'd presume that Edric Storm, being the acknowledged bastard, would have a chance to inherit Storms End. I can't see any of the others doing so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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