Season 5 Impressions

[Chilli]

What Lannisters? There's only Cersei Lannister who blames Sansa for Joffrey's death.

[atheron70]

Sorry but no it doesn't make sense at all. Distancing from Lannisters is one thing but marrying a girl wanted for regicide is something else completely. That is not distancing from Lannisters that is declaring a war to them. And right now they maybe dont have enough power to fight a war but if they manage to hold their rule for a few years they will absolutely be able to fight the war with Boltons. And lets not forget that Lannisters always pay their depths even in the show. And about Stannis I don't know which northern lord would be so stupid to side with Boltons against Stannis. Boltons were involved in Red Wedding while Stannis so far never harmed anyone from the north. And by the way what can be Littlefinger's possible angle in all this? Why the hell would he went all that trouble to secure the vale for himself only to now leave it? In fact nothing seems to make sense the more I think about it.

Littlefinger is always looking to move up if you think he would be content to rule and stay in the Vale you haven't been watching him enough. In fact, I think in last night's episode they made his motives pretty clear. He flat out said to Bolton that the last time the Lords of the Vale and North aligned they toppled the Targaryens. Boltons and Littlefinger know the Lannisters are in the weakest position in decades. Bolton can't and doesn't need to rely on their support anymore. If the two join forces they can parlay their already growing power into greater holdings (i.e. march on the South). Again, this doesn't necessarily seem smart considering a war just ended but then again when did Littlefinger ever care about the aftermath of his plans, he just creates chaos to be, as Varys puts it, king of the ashes.

Not to mention Id argue that with Sansa as Ramsay's wife the Boltons then have a legitimate reason to rally the North against the Lannisters once more and join forces with the Vale. The Vale and the North are now united by family ties and Littlefinger pretty much controls it all. Additionally, the recent episodes have showed us that the North is not responding to Stannis (i.e. the Lady of Bear islands letter indicating there is no King in the North but Stark). The North may hate the Boltons, but there is now a Stark in Winterfell. Does it really seem so silly for SOME northerners to support that side rather then Stannis?

I think you are far underestimating Littlefinger's game and overestimating Stannis' appeal to the Northerns (and this is coming from a Stannis fan).

[StepStark]

Littlefinger is always looking to move up if you think he would be content to rule and stay in the Vale you haven't been watching him enough. In fact, I think in last night's episode they made his motives pretty clear. He flat out said to Bolton that the last time the Lords of the Vale and North aligned they toppled the Targaryens. Boltons and Littlefinger know the Lannisters are in the weakest position in decades. Bolton can't and doesn't need to rely on their support anymore. If the two join forces they can parlay their already growing power into greater holdings (i.e. march on the South). Again, this doesn't necessarily seem smart considering a war just ended but then again when did Littlefinger ever care about the aftermath of his plans, he just creates chaos to be, as Varys puts it, king of the ashes.

Not to mention Id argue that with Sansa as Ramsay's wife the Boltons then have a legitimate reason to rally the North against the Lannisters once more and join forces with the Vale. The Vale and the North are now united by family ties and Littlefinger pretty much controls it all. Additionally, the recent episodes have showed us that the North is not responding to Stannis (i.e. the Lady of Bear islands letter indicating there is no King in the North but Stark). The North may hate the Boltons, but there is now a Stark in Winterfell. Does it really seem so silly for SOME northerners to support that side rather then Stannis?

I think you are far underestimating Littlefinger's game and overestimating Stannis' appeal to the Northerns (and this is coming from a Stannis fan).

All this would be true in a Disneyland but this is Westeros. Putting Varys's and Littlefinger's silly monologues aside Littlefinger would never make chaos when he has Vale under him. Why would anyone create chaos out of situation in which he is the one with all the advantage because vale is the one region that wasn't affected by war. How can he trust Bolton at all and how can Bolton trust him at all? It's not a chaos but absolutely stupid and yes we have a very good idea that this alliance will not bring anything to Littlefinger or Bolton so in fact it is a very stupid decision.

[atheron70]

All this would be true in a Disneyland but this is Westeros. Putting Varys's and Littlefinger's silly monologues aside Littlefinger would never make chaos when he has Vale under him. Why would anyone create chaos out of situation in which he is the one with all the advantage because vale is the one region that wasn't affected by war. How can he trust Bolton at all and how can Bolton trust him at all? It's not a chaos but absolutely stupid and yes we have a very good idea that this alliance will not bring anything to Littlefinger or Bolton so in fact it is a very stupid decision.

Absolutely not, I cannot disagree with you more. Littlefinger didn't convince Lysa Arryn to poison Jon to be Lord of the Vale. Littlefinger didn't betray Ned Stark (thereby losing the one person he's ever loved) to be Lord of the Vale. Littlefinger didn't commit regicide (Joffrey) to be Lord of the Vale. He's had one end game in mind since day one and that's the Iron Throne. The one way he can achieve that given his family name and holdings is by eliminating other great families. Why not ally yourself with another up and coming house (Boltons) against the more established houses, given their relative weakness. How can you just say "putting Varys and Littlefinger's silly monologues aside"? Those monologues give us insight into their characters that nothing else does. I'd argue their FAR beyond silly. Not to mention Littlefinger living his days out peacefully in the Vale with little lord Baelish's running around and growing old sounds more like the "Disneyland" you described then Westeros.

[Bud RR Martin]

What's all this about Littlefinger being Lord of the Vale? He left Sweet Robin behind. Next time he walks up to the Bloody Gates, I'm certain someone will tell him to turn around and pound sand.

[StepStark]

Absolutely not, I cannot disagree with you more. Littlefinger didn't convince Lysa Arryn to poison Jon to be Lord of the Vale. Littlefinger didn't betray Ned Stark (thereby losing the one person he's ever loved) to be Lord of the Vale. Littlefinger didn't commit regicide (Joffrey) to be Lord of the Vale. He's had one end game in mind since day one and that's the Iron Throne. The one way he can achieve that given his family name and holdings is by eliminating other great families. Why not ally yourself with another up and coming house (Boltons) against the more established houses, given their relative weakness. How can you just say "putting Varys and Littlefinger's silly monologues aside"? Those monologues give us insight into their characters that nothing else does. I'd argue their FAR beyond silly. Not to mention Littlefinger living his days out peacefully in the Vale with little lord Baelish's running around and growing old sounds more like the "Disneyland" you described then Westeros.

Their monologues are so bad its unbelievable and the one I hate most of all is the one about chaos and ladder because its all gibberish in fact. But nothing is just nothing as we already learned so maybe it all makes some sense in some universe but lets leave that aside for now. What I want to say is that making an ally with some house is one thing but giving them your the biggest value is in fact ridiculous. And also you say that Boltons are up and coming but what Roose Bolton said in the show is that they are in a much weak position right now. So if wanted to ally with someone maybe Littlefinger should choose more careful. Not to mention what is stopping Bolton to murder Littlefinger and have Sansa all for him? Because that way he would also have the vale as ally because Sansa is cousin to Lord of The Vale. And Roose Bolton is not too strict on the guest rights as we all know so he wouldn't have some big problems with killing Littlefinger. That is what up and coming house Boltons would do in a real world and not in Disneyland of the show. Anyhow that would be the end for Littlefinger and there goes his master plan.

[Peter George Stewart]

I think with episode 3 the show is hotting up, getting in the saddle. The first two episodes were ok but not great. Episode 3 is a return to form.

Reading the "unsullied reactions" thread, it reminds me how, on the one hand, fans lament the lack of book-complexity in the show - but we always see in "unsullied reactions" threads how many people, who aren't already commmitted to the books, find it hard enough to keep track of the few characters the show has (relative to the books). That's not because people are stupid, but because they're not necessarily that committed, it's just light entertainment for them.

This tells me that B&W are actually doing fairly well with their "streamlining" of the books. The show is already complex enough, any more characters and plotlines to keep track of, and I think it would probably start to lose audience.

We all have our favourites that are missing from the show, and we all notice certain odd seams etc., but I think as fans we are sometimes overly critical of the show in a way that's actually a bit stupid. We need to bear in mind the bigger picture: it's a show that is already on the edge of bursting with characters and plotlines, and it's already quite a job for the average viewer to keep track. Streamlining and simplification are absolutely necessary; that the streamlining and simplification won't always go the way one might prefer ought to be understandable and forgiveable. You can't please all the people all the time.