Sir Duck's Squire Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I know this isn't new, but re-reading I noticed how clearly Martin shows that Tyrion doesn't get grayscale from the river battle, but Griff does when he goes and saves Tyrion (Tryion had far more contact with the stone men and river then Griff did), and it's mentioned how dragons do not get sick (Dany can't recall being sick, and she doesn't contract the Pale Mare when she walks through the camps). Also, the fact that Tyrion is a little person, described as small and misshapen, is just like the few last dragons born whose skeletons remain in the Red Keep, small and misshapen also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Targaryens can suffer from greyscale. One of Jaehaerys I & Queen Alysanne's daughters died from it. Plenty of Targaryens died from sickness too. Where do you get the notion that they're immune from sickness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I know this isn't new, but re-reading I noticed how clearly Martin shows that Tyrion doesn't get grayscale from the river battle, but Griff does when he goes and saves Tyrion (Tryion had far more contact with the stone men and river then Griff did), and it's mentioned how dragons do not get sick (Dany can't recall being sick, and she doesn't contract the Pale Mare when she walks through the camps). Also, the fact that Tyrion is a little person, described as small and misshapen, is just like the few last dragons born whose skeletons remain in the Red Keep, small and misshapen also. Daeron II, Valarr and Matarys died in the Great Spring Sickness. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2908 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Daeron II, Valarr and Matarys died in the Great Spring Sickness. /threadLolPlus there were many Targaryens who died during the great spring sickness.I don't think the points you stated above are solid enough to prove Tyrion is a Targaryen. There are other points such as having mismatched eyes, dragon dreams, the Aerys Joanna affair, pale blonde hair, etc to prove he's a Targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 LolPlus there were many Targaryens who died during the great spring sickness.I don't think the points you stated above are solid enough to prove Tyrion is a Targaryen.There are other points such as having mismatched eyes, dragon dreams, the Aerys Joanna affair, pale blonde hair, etc to prove he's a Targ. Euron has mismatched eyes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Duck's Squire Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Well my point is that passage where Dany is asked 'have you ever heard of a sick dragon' and she thinks back to if she's ever been sick and can't recall... I just thought that it might be interesting that the idea of 'the dragon must have three heads' means that 'being a dragon' wasn't just a Targ reference but actually three people embodying a specific qualification as part of the three headed dragon. One qualification is being a Targ, another is being immune to sickness... I'm not sure if there's anything to it but Martin does love implications on such things, small subtle implications everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Dany doesn't remember being sick, but she recognizes her fever just fine. I don't know about you, but to me that spells "being sick - again". Her connection to reality is sometimes a bit tenous. Especially when House Targaryen or dragons are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too hot to handle Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I think there are implications of Tyrion being a dragon but I don't think that they are strong. Him being misshapen has ties to other Targs being born as still births misshapen and have dragon scales, tails, etc...however all those die. He is just a dwarf IMO. TWOIAF leaves room for him being a product of Aerys and Joanna but when I read about what Tywin did to Reynes and Tarbecks I don't think if he had a suspicion that Tyrion wasn't his, a shit storm would've had followed. There aren't any references to rumors that Tyrion isn't the son of Tywin, but the lack of evidence is not anything in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Duck's Squire Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 True, but I do think that Tywin's biggest power is his illusion of power... for example, the illusion that Casterly Rock is filled with gold even when the mines are dry, or that his armies are more powerful then they are... Either way, if Tywin viewed having his wife mother a bastard with another man a larger blow to his image then taking Tyrion in as his own son... I think he would have kept the mummery up. Besides, Tywin has always hated Tyrion, and Tryion was never going to get Casterly Rock no matter what birthright laws suggested. Besides Tywin's retribution on the Targs could have been fueled by this personal slight and not by political ones. Anyways, if there are to be 7 books and 5 have already been published, then any character being a head of the three headed dragon will have to be someone we have already met and gotten to know. There isn't enough time for proper character development for such an important plot point in the story. This is why I have my serious doubts about Young Griff, because among all the other implications against him being a Targ there just isn't enough time left in the story for us to warm up to him and cheer for him as the story's hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 You are confused by the show. The goldmines under Casterly Rock produce as much as they ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 This is a really good opportunity for people against Tyrion being Aerys son, tare these really the 2 best reasons you can come up with. Even within the Tyrion falling in the river concept your missing out on the better point. If you say Targs cant get sick your gona have a buncha people refernence x and y irrelevant Targaryens from 100-200 years ago and think they're right as nobody on here recognizes the concept that such Traits arent unanimously applicable to every ancestor ever (Ned Stark was a warg right?) "You swallowed half the river""Death comes out of the dragon's mouth, but never goes in that way." Translation- Tyrion consumed water that Connington got greyscale just from putting is arm in, Tyrion did not get this mortal sickness that he swallowed Tyrion=Targ="Dragon". No reasonable line of logic that could invalidate that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 This is a really good opportunity for people against Tyrion being Aerys son, tare these really the 2 best reasons you can come up with. Even within the Tyrion falling in the river concept your missing out on the better point. If you say Targs cant get sick your gona have a buncha people refernence x and y irrelevant Targaryens from 100-200 years ago and think they're right as nobody on here recognizes the concept that such Traits arent unanimously applicable to every ancestor ever (Ned Stark was a warg right?) "You swallowed half the river" "Death comes out of the dragon's mouth, but never goes in that way." Translation- Tyrion consumed water that Connington got greyscale just from putting is arm in, Tyrion did not get this mortal sickness that he swallowed Tyrion=Targ="Dragon". No reasonable line of logic that could invalidate that Haldon told Tyrion that he might be turning to stone from the inside and there is no way to be sure. If Tyrion coughs a grey flake in the future, that would invalidate this logic. Though we know that Targs can and did die from greyscale too. So, this logic cannot be used to prove either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Even within the Tyrion falling in the river concept your missing out on the better point. If you say Targs cant get sick your gona have a buncha people refernence x and y irrelevant Targaryens from 100-200 years ago and think they're right as nobody on here recognizes the concept that such Traits arent unanimously applicable to every ancestor ever (Ned Stark was a warg right?) So, instead of the textual evidence, you rest your case on the nonsense a proven nutjob (Viserys) was spewing, with Dany repeating the mantra "I can't get sick because I'm a dragon" while shitting brown water, being feverish (not for the first time) and all that drivel? Sounds pretty sick to me. And a bit disconnected from reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I read Daenerys' "I can't be ill" shtick in the same vein as any person who is ill but insists they're fine. Sometimes that's as much about convincing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 This is a really good opportunity for people against Tyrion being Aerys son, tare these really the 2 best reasons you can come up with. Even within the Tyrion falling in the river concept your missing out on the better point. If you say Targs cant get sick your gona have a buncha people refernence x and y irrelevant Targaryens from 100-200 years ago and think they're right as nobody on here recognizes the concept that such Traits arent unanimously applicable to every ancestor ever (Ned Stark was a warg right?) "You swallowed half the river" "Death comes out of the dragon's mouth, but never goes in that way." Translation- Tyrion consumed water that Connington got greyscale just from putting is arm in, Tyrion did not get this mortal sickness that he swallowed Tyrion=Targ="Dragon". No reasonable line of logic that could invalidate that So, instead of the textual evidence, you rest your case on the nonsense a proven nutjob (Viserys) was spewing, with Dany repeating the mantra "I can't get sick because I'm a dragon" while shitting brown water, being feverish (not for the first time) and all that drivel? Sounds pretty sick to me. And a bit disconnected from reality. You dont just get to make stuff up about what your responding too. Im actually basing the only thing i said on very a blatant clue in the text; and usually textual evidence isnt whats encouraged in this particular debate but insist on every person who supports the theory posting the dozens of clues throughout the series every time they comment, because thats another unique aspect of this debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 So, Dany, is definitely not a dragon, because she is indeed sick, but Tyrion is, because he isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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