VVSINGOFTHECROSS Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Daenerys' paternity was never in doubt, for whatever reason. Presumably because the questions over Daeron's were just slander. Aye, just goes to show that Daemon and his cronies were really just a bit slow on the uptake there aha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Pepsi_Cupps Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Maybe it was know to be impossible for the Dragonknight to be Daenerys' father, eg if he was away on a mission to Dorne or somewhere (in the style of Arys Oakheart) for a year before she was born. "That, or a 1000-league member." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VVSINGOFTHECROSS Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Maybe it was know to be impossible for the Dragonknight to be Daenerys' father, eg if he was away on a mission to Dorne or somewhere (in the style of Arys Oakheart) for a year before she was born."That, or a 1000-league member."Or truth be to;ld there was no truth behind the rumours of him being Daeron's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 My personal guess is anyway that Daeron II married his (elder) sons to the second-best option after sisters - cousins through the female line. Ran confirmed that Aelinor Penrose was Aerys' cousin, and I'm inclined to believe that Jena Dondarrion was a Targaryen cousin, too. Both could be descended from one of the daughters of Rhaena Targaryen by Garmund Hightower. My reasoning for his is that the Dondarrion are way beneath the Targaryens, and certainly not a worthy match for the Prince of Dragonstone - especially not if the Blackwoods - a former royal house - are considered to be beneath a Targaryen prince, too, unless he is at the very end of the line of succession. Yandel states that Egg's marriage may have caused trouble if he had been closer to the throne - but he does not imply that the marriage of Baelor and Aerys to rather insignificant third-tier houses did raise any objection whatsoever. Which could make sense if the Dondarrions and Penroses were among the closest cousins the Targaryens had during the days of Daeron II. This could also explain the two marriages between the Penroses and the Targaryens - Elaena-Ronnel, and Aerys-Aelinor. Daeron's political coup there was to chose two Targaryen cousins as brides for his elder sons from their Marcher Lord kin to bind those houses to him, personally - rather than going down the usual Velaryon road (if there were any women in the right age in that house) or choose a suitable bride from a more noble Targaryen cousin line (say, the Hightowers - I'm pretty sure one of Rhaena's daughters married back into the main Hightower line) or from a distinguished great lord line. He wanted to ensure that at least some Marcher Lords are on his side in the whole Dorne thing. And Aegon IV's section also explain that young Daeron II was close to some Marcher/Stormlords Aegon wanted to separate from Daeron with his stupid Dornish war idea. I imagine those lords were the Lords/heirs of House Penrose and Dondarrion whose mothers were the daughters of Rhaena and Garmund, and that they were raised at court as close kin to House Targaryen (like Steffon Baratheon was later). Viserys II was Rhaena's half-brother, after all. He would have wanted that his grandson and Rhaena's grandchildren are close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Magpies Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 With regard to Bran, Rickon and the rest of the Stark kiddies being upgraded to 'prince/princess' after Robb's ascension to kingship; I presume this is because Robb is seen to be reviving the old line of the Kings of Winter. His claim comes through Torrhen and his ancestors, through whom Bran and the rest are also descended. Robert, on the other hand, is beginning a new line through claim of conquest and a female royal line which, as Lord Varys convincingly argues, may not constitute 'princeship' to its descendants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 It may be that things are different if you are descended from the king through the female line only (compare it to the daughter of Princess Anne, who has no title at all, if I'm not mistaken) but if this is the case then it is not mentioned. But it could explain why Steffon and his sons aren't princes. Gyldayn does also not style Laenor Velaryon 'prince' and if I remember correctly then Rhaenyra's sons by Laenor are also not princes in TRP and TPatQ. In TRP, Rhaenyra's sons are referred to as the Velaryon princelings before Aemond loses an eye, but a cursory search didn't reveal other mentions. In TPATQ, Lucerys is referred to as prince several times during his scene at Storm's End. Jacaerys is referred to as the Prince of Dragonstone. Joffrey is mentioned as a prince while Jace is still alive: "Mindful of the promise he had made to the Maiden of the Vale, Jace ordered Prince Joffrey to fly to Gulltown with Tyraxes." Joffrey later became Prince of Dragonstone. I found a few mentions by Yandel in TWOIAF. "Lord Boremund was outspoken in supporting the claim of his niece, Princess Rhaenys and her son, Prince Laenor of House Velaryon, but found himself on the losing side of the argument." "Pushes and shoves were followed by fists after Aemond mocked Rhaenyra's boys as the 'Strongs'—until young Prince Lucerys took a knife and plunged it into Aemon's eye." Jacaerys and Joffrey are both referred to as Prince (of Dragonstone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Yandel isn't all that observant with this stuff as he also styles Baela and Rhaena 'princess' when Gyldayn calls them only 'ladies'. And 'Prince Laenor also seems to be mistake on Yandel's part as he is only (Ser) Laenor in TRP and TPatQ. But I imagine that all of Rhaenyra's sons were princes throughout their lives as they were the children of Viserys' chosen successor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Pepsi_Cupps Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 My personal guess is anyway that Daeron II married his (elder) sons to the second-best option after sisters - cousins through the female line.*cough*Daenerys*cough* :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Yeah, but he wanted to use her for the alliance with Dorne. That's obvious. My point was that his sons may have gotten the second-best Targaryen matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleath56 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Whatever they got was more than they deserved. People may have supported Daeron II's claim, but everyone hated the Dornish. They were fortunate enough to have gotten two betrothals from Baelor the Dumbass. Going by TWOIAF, the Dornish were extremely lucky to have even gotten peace considering they were the Freys of the Blackfyre era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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