Who do you think will be the 13 POV characters at the start of WINDS?

[ChillyPolly]

That was my view but I hear GRRM has confirmed that the battle at Storm's End will be on page. That cannot happen without JonCon since we know as of Arianne 2 that she still hasn't joined Aegon.

I strongly disagree. I don't think Sam is dead and I;m practically certain he will have further part to play. What that is, I cannot guess since GRRM hasn't provided much on the Citadel stuff but there's lot more to come from that plotline and I don't see anny other PoV taking over that.

I also completely forgot about Cersie in my post. Unless Jaime makes his way back to KL pretty soon one would think she would be the PoV for the trial.

I believe what GRRM once hinted was that the battle of Storm's End might appear as a PROLOGUE chapter. And we all know what the pattern is with one-offs - characters who appear for one chapter, and then get killed (Will, Cressen, Pate, etc.) I agree that such non-recurring "one-offs" probably do not count toward the 13 POV total. I don't expect JonCon to be at the Battle of Storms End at all. Was not FAegon planning to lead that himself?

I agree that Sam still has a role to play, but I believe that role is "Fake Sam the Faceless Man". Marwyn has stopped Real Sam from talking to the Archmaesters; and has apparently taken ship elsewhere. So we pretty much know what's happening at Oldtown and the Citadel - nothing. Marwyn made sure the other Archmaesters are out of the loop. He left two ultra-deadly assassins to "take care" of Sam. That's curtains for Sam. Sorry. We'll find out what Marwyn is up, and what he plans to do with Aemon's magic books and Gilly's magic baby, whenever he gets where he is headed.

I agree that we'll get a Cersei POV. That may be where we next see Jaime. I suspect GRRM will want us to see Jaime through Cersei's eyes - i.e. the reader will see Jaime return from a mysterious absence without knowing what has happened to him. That means no Brienne POV either. GRRM will keep his readers in the dark, like Cersei will be.

[ChillyPolly]

- Sam - Sam was already leaft behind in ADWD, I don't think he will be missing from TWOT as well. I read in a thread that it was confirmed that we will see

Highgarden

and Sam seems to be the only character who can happen to be there.

GRRM never said we would see Highgarten in THE WINDS OF WINTER.

Anyhow, Sam is not in Highgarden, and is NOT the only POV character who can go there.

Ned Stark's POV has been missing alot longer than Sam's. And probably for a similar reason; considering that Sam was about to be offed by a Faceless Man when we last saw him, and hasn't been seen since.

[Nerevanin]

GRRM never said we would see Highgarten in THE WINDS OF WINTER.

Anyhow, Sam is not in Highgarden, and is NOT the only POV character who can go there.

Ned Stark's POV has been missing alot longer than Sam's. And probably for a similar reason; considering that Sam was about to be offed by a Faceless Man when we last saw him, and hasn't been seen since.

Oh, sorry then, I mixed it up, I thought that Highgarden was supposed to be in TWOW. :)

Well, of course Sam isn't the only one who could ever possibly go there, I just wanted to point out that he's probably the closest one to the place geographically. But surely someone else can get there as well. :)

[Ser Eric]

I believe what GRRM once hinted was that the battle of Storm's End might appear as a PROLOGUE chapter. And we all know what the pattern is with one-offs - characters who appear for one chapter, and then get killed (Will, Cressen, Pate, etc.) I agree that such non-recurring "one-offs" probably do not count toward the 13 POV total. I don't expect JonCon to be at the Battle of Storms End at all. Was not FAegon planning to lead that himself?

I agree that Sam still has a role to play, but I believe that role is "Fake Sam the Faceless Man". Marwyn has stopped Real Sam from talking to the Archmaesters; and has apparently taken ship elsewhere. So we pretty much know what's happening at Oldtown and the Citadel - nothing. Marwyn made sure the other Archmaesters are out of the loop. He left two ultra-deadly assassins to "take care" of Sam. That's curtains for Sam. Sorry. We'll find out what Marwyn is up, and what he plans to do with Aemon's magic books and Gilly's magic baby, whenever he gets where he is headed.

I agree that we'll get a Cersei POV. That may be where we next see Jaime. I suspect GRRM will want us to see Jaime through Cersei's eyes - i.e. the reader will see Jaime return from a mysterious absence without knowing what has happened to him. That means no Brienne POV either. GRRM will keep his readers in the dark, like Cersei will be.

I don't believe he said anything about a prologue. Besides, we already know Jeyne Westerling will be in the prologue which means it will be somewhere in the Riverlands or Westerlands no nothing to do with Storms End. Aegon might lead the attack but JonCon will be there alright. If we are to see the battle of Storm's End as GRRM has hinted JonCon will have a PoV. There's no way around that.

It's not just about his role. It's the whole storyline. Marvyn is half across the sea by now so it has nothing to do with him. Sam dying pretty much renders that storyline dead because there's no one else near anywhere near him. There's too much left unsaid in that plot for it too end abruptly with Sam's death. Sam is alive and has a PoV. I'll stake my E-life on it.

Jaime will have return very quickly from wherever Brienne's taken him to negate the need for a Cersie PoV. So I suspect we'll have at least one from Cersie as well.

[ChillyPolly]

I don't believe he said anything about a prologue. Besides, we already know Jeyne Westerling will be in the prologue which means it will be somewhere in the Riverlands or Westerlands no nothing to do with Storms End. Aegon might lead the attack but JonCon will be there alright. If we are to see the battle of Storm's End as GRRM has hinted JonCon will have a PoV. There's no way around that.

It's not just about his role. It's the whole storyline. Marvyn is half across the sea by now so it has nothing to do with him. Sam dying pretty much renders that storyline dead because there's no one else near anywhere near him. There's too much left unsaid in that plot for it too end abruptly with Sam's death. Sam is alive and has a PoV. I'll stake my E-life on it.

Jaime will have return very quickly from wherever Brienne's taken him to negate the need for a Cersie PoV. So I suspect we'll have at least one from Cersie as well.

Now that I think of it, the "Prologue" part was probably my own conclusion from his hints. IIRC, he was originally planning to have the battle of Storm's end occur off-page. What changed his mind? My guess was that what changed was that DANCE ended before he could get to the Battle of Storm's end, and tradition says that each book begins with a prologue featuring a one-off expendable. And if he is really trying to focus the story, as he claims, then it is reasonable to suppose that 2 hints (the Jeyne hint and the Storm's End hint) relate to a single chapter rather than that the story will continue to be all over the place. Occham's Razor, you know. Why theorize two chapters when a single chapter can explain both clues?

Jeyne Westerling being in the prologue does not imply it will not occur at Storms End. Jeyne Westerling could be anywhere. I don't understand this mindset that it is impossible for characters and the story to actually move. We are hoping for him to finish the story someday aren't we?

You're wrong about Sam. His role in the story is to deliver Gilly's magic kingsblood baby to an evil magician; and then get get killed and replaced with a doppleganger. He's accomplished that. Yes, I know many fans are looking forward to seven volumes of Samwell's adventures at Hogwarts, featuring Sam as Harry Potter, Alleras as Hermione, Fake Pate as Ron, Leo Tyrell as Draco Malfoy, and Marwyn the Mage as Dumbledore. But these fans are insane. If they get what they want the series will never make even the slightest progress toward being finished.

Again, I agree we will get a Cersei POV. Just no Brienne or Jaime POV.

[Razha]

You're wrong about Sam. His role in the story is to deliver Gilly's magic kingsblood baby to an evil magician; and then get get killed and replaced with a doppleganger. He's accomplished that. Yes, I know many fans are looking forward to seven volumes of Samwell's adventures at Hogwarts, featuring Sam as Harry Potter, Alleras as Hermione, Fake Pate as Ron, Leo Tyrell as Draco Malfoy, and Marwyn the Mage as Dumbledore. But these fans are insane. If they get what they want the series will never make even the slightest progress toward being finished.

I am sorry, this is so crackpot, that it borders on trolling...

Hogwarts has nothing to do with this, it is pretty obvious that Sam is not going to stay at the Oldown for long, Oldtown is about to be sucked by the Ironborn and Sam will have to witness that/escape and meet his father Lord Turly (Who by the way is being cast for Season 6, and not just Sams father, but his mother, sister and brother as well !!!) why the hell would "Sam the Faceless Man" visit his sister and brother???

[Razha]

I am sorry, this is so crackpot, that it borders on trolling...

Hogwarts has nothing to do with this, it is pretty obvious that Sam is not going to stay at the Oldown for long, Oldtown is about to be sucked by the Ironborn and Sam will have to witness that/escape and meet his father Lord Turly (Who by the way is being cast for Season 6, and not just Sams father, but his mother, sister and brother as well !!!) why the hell would "Sam the Faceless Man" visit his sister and brother???

+ The faceless Man needed pates face to infiltrate the Citadel, why would he need 2 faces for 1 task?

[ChillyPolly]

I am sorry, this is so crackpot, that it borders on trolling...

Hogwarts has nothing to do with this, it is pretty obvious that Sam is not going to stay at the Oldown for long, Oldtown is about to be sucked by the Ironborn and Sam will have to witness that/escape and meet his father Lord Turly (Who by the way is being cast for Season 6, and not just Sams father, but his mother, sister and brother as well !!!) why the hell would "Sam the Faceless Man" visit his sister and brother???

There are so many things wrong with this argument, I scarcely know where to begin. For starters, the Show is not the Books.

[ChillyPolly]

+ The faceless Man needed pates face to infiltrate the Citadel, why would he need 2 faces for 1 task?

Who ever said the Faceless Man was going to remain at the Citadel? Marwyn is apparently leaving, and he has probably taken his buddies with him.

I did not suggest that Sam was killed in order to impersonate him or to infiltrate the Citadel. I suggested he was killed in order to prevent him from talking to the Archmaesters. But now that the faceless man has killed him, impersonation becomes an option for the future. The faceless man on the rickety bridge (to the Isle of Ravens) can wear the glamour of the drowned crow.

[Ser Eric]

Jeyne Westerling being in the prologue does not imply it will not occur at Storms End. Jeyne Westerling could be anywhere. I don't understand this mindset that it is impossible for characters and the story to actually move. We are hoping for him to finish the story someday aren't we?

It does imply that actually. You're being contradictory for the sake of it. There's literally no reason for Jeyne to be anywhere near Storm's End. She's on the other side of Westeros under heavy guard. Yeah she could be anywhere. She could be on the moon for all I know:rolleyes:

You're wrong about Sam. His role in the story is to deliver Gilly's magic kingsblood baby to an evil magician; and then get get killed and replaced with a doppleganger. He's accomplished that.

You don't know his role in the story, so stop treating what you think as facts. Maybe you are right; chance are that you are not. But in the meantime you could at least stop being so conceited at anyone having a different opinion.

Again, I agree we will get a Cersei POV. Just no Brienne or Jaime POV.

Either Jaime or Brienne will have a PoV.

[ChillyPolly]

It does imply that actually. You're being contradictory for the sake of it. There's literally no reason for Jeyne to be anywhere near Storm's End. She's on the other side of Westeros under heavy guard.

If you assume the Lannisters have got that situation completely locked down and under control, it is hard to imagine that Jeyne Westerling has any further role to play in the narrative.

[Ser Eric]

If you assume the Lannisters have got that situation completely locked down and under control, it is hard to imagine that Jeyne Westerling has any further role to play in the narrative.

I don't believe the Lannisters have complete control. It's shaky if anything.

Although I don't see Jeyne having too much of a role either.

[ChillyPolly]

I don't believe the Lannisters have complete control. It's shaky if anything.

Well then, the prologue could be anywhere. All it needs is a short paragraph or two or three explaining how Jeyne got there, and we're off and running with whatever shite is about to hit the fan.

Sybell is a descendant of a blood sorcerer, and may be a blood sorcerer herself. Jeyne is carrying a kingsblood baby, and we all know what blood sorcerers like to use kingsblood babies for - blood sacrifice for waking stone dragons. Blood sorcerers also know glamours.

[Lord Ravenstark]

Sansa, Aeron, Victarion, Barristan, Theon, Tyrion, Arianne, Arya are confirmed. But I don't think they will be at the start.

Daenerys will also be present, I believe, but not at the start. He will linger the cliffhanger.

Samwell and Brandon are going to appear, I believe, but I am not so sure if as POV or just as characters. Mind you these two characters are being set a greater plot, probably related to the Others, so I don't think they will die in this book. If they appear as POV they are going to be outside the thirteen characters or maybe as minor POVs.

I think Cersei is going to be a POV in the beginning of the book. Our King's Landing mad little bird.

And so JonCon and Asha. Maybe Davos, but I don't think he will be a POV here.

I don't know, maybe another small time inside Melisandre's mind, our POV in the Wall.

At last, Barristan.

So, not in order.

Sansa

Aeron

Victarion

Barristan

Theon

Tyrion

Arianne

Arya

Cersei - King's Landing

JonCon - Griff and Aegon

Asha - Pausible, her or Jaime.

Melisandre - At the wall.

Barristan - Meereenese plot and Daenery's.

On side note, hopefully we have a chance of Jon Free book, so I look foward it. I would want a saner character for King's Landing storytelling, maybe even a Tyrell, instead of Cersei... is the no new POV policy going to be strong?

[ChillyPolly]

... is the no new POV policy going to be strong?

It's not strong. He could change his mind and add a POV he did not anticipate. I just that I think that anyone who bases his guesses on the theory that he knows better than GRRM, at this early point or at any other time, is barking up the wrong tree.

However, you seem to have listed Barristan twice. So in your case, I think you COULD add one more POV.

[Ser Eric]

Well then, the prologue could be anywhere. All it needs is a short paragraph or two or three explaining how Jeyne got there, and we're off and running with whatever shite is about to hit the fan.

Sybell is a descendant of a blood sorcerer, and may be a blood sorcerer herself. Jeyne is carrying a kingsblood baby, and we all know what blood sorcerers like to use kingsblood babies for - blood sacrifice for waking stone dragons. Blood sorcerers also know glamours.

Yeah, no.

:rolleyes:

[Lord Ravenstark]

It's not strong. He could change his mind and add a POV he did not anticipate. I just that I think that anyone who bases his guesses on the theory that he knows better than GRRM, at this early point or at any other time, is barking up the wrong tree.

However, you seem to have listed Barristan twice. So in your case, I think you COULD add one more POV.

Indeed, my mistake.

For some reason I mixed Barristan and Areo names, yet kept their plots in my head.

For what is worth, I believe Theon will be dead before he can narrate.

Errata:

At last, Barristan.

So, not in order.

Sansa

Aeron

Victarion

Areo

Theon

Tyrion

Arianne

Arya

Cersei - King's Landing

JonCon - Griff and Aegon

Asha - Pausible, her or Jaime.

Melisandre - At the wall.

Barristan - Meereenese plot and Daenery's.

[King17]

Theon

Bran

Arya

Sansa

Dany

Victorian

Aeron

Jon snow

Tyrion

Samwell

Davos

Melisandre

Arianne

[Northern Pride]

13 povs to start Winds with maybe 7-11 to end.

To change a quote from the famous actor Roy Scheider.

"We"re gonna need 2 more books."

Without knowing how Winds ends, can anyone see GM doing a complete cram job in DOS? I'd kind of be disappointed if he did.

[born amidst snow and corn]

GRRM has said there will be 13 POVs at the start of WINDS (note, he may change his mind). Who do you think the 13 POV characters will be in WINDS?

These are the first 8 confirmed characters:

1. Aeron Greyjoy

2. Sansa Stark

3. Arya Stark

4. Arianne Martell

5. Theon Greyjoy

6. Barristan Selmy

7. Tyrion Lannister

8. Victarion Greyjoy

9. Cersei

10. Jaime

11. Jon/Mel(if jon will actually die)

12. Davos

13. Samwell

14. prologue- Devan lannister

15. epilogue- Bran (not a typical prologue/epilogue character but I feel that the book will end with him with some sort of connection to the others).

I guess I am one of the few readers who likes Dany as a character and didn't entirely hate her adwd povs and character development but i think that in this book there's no need for her pov. we know where she is psychologically, there are already 3 pov characters in slavers bay and it would simply be better if we get to see her ending the battle of fire on drogon's back with jahqo's khalasar behind her from tyrion or barristan's point of view.

We'll need her POVs when she'll finally reach westeros.