Jump to content

"Hey Robert, Lyanna didn't want to be with you"


Nami

Recommended Posts

If we think that Lyanna willingly left with Rhaegar and Ned knew about it, how come Ned never told Robert that Lyanna didn't like him?


The times Robert brough up the matter of Rhaegar kidnapping her, Ned just stands there.


What's the deal with that? I don't see the point of hiding this from Robert. It could've even helped his friend to accept and move on.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very good friends with my best friends wife. Not long ago we went out for drinks together, they have a 2 year old and so most of the time they cannot both go out. She had a dress that was for winter, whatever that means, and on the 1st day of spring she was all like "omg my dress is going to be wasted I have to go out" and so I said lets have a few drinks. We had a great time and got kind of drunk and started talking about their relationship. She wound up telling me some very intimate stuff, the basis of which was that she wants her husband to be rougher in bed with her, and she wanted me to try and relay that to him. At the time I thought that I might be able to do that, the next day I realized telling your best friend he needs to be rougher with his wife is not something I can do.



I know that may seem like an unrelated rant, but I really do not think it is. There are some things you cannot say to your friends, and telling him that the woman he loved was not into him is probably 1 of them.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't really know when Ned knew that (or if he even did for sure). The most likely time was after he found her at the Tower of Joy, and after she died what point in telling Robert? Getting rid of Aerys wasn't just about Lyanna either.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, I refuse to believe Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar willingly. I am firmly convinced that she was kidnapped against her will. Sadly, this means that Jon Snow is in all likelihood a child of rape.

With that out of the way, I'll humor the prompt. If, hypothetically, Lyanna did run away, than there are a few reasons Eddard would not tell Robert.

1. He dosn't know himself: Lyanna is on her deathbed when Eddard finds her. Its possible she didn't get around to telling him as a result of only having enough time to say a few words.

2. He's trying to spare Robert's feelings: when Robert was dying, Eddard didn't tell him that Joffery was not his son. While it would have made Robert's last moments harder, it would also have given him a chance to ensure someone who's actually of his blood gets the throne (Stannis, Edric, etc.). So it is possible that Eddard would not want to tell Robert that he is in mourning an inexcusably selfish turncloak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even if it were true and Ned knew, what kind of person would tell his best friend that the dead love of his life wasn't in love with him?

I'm not sure about Westeros, but around here that's called a dick move.

If your living wife is cheating on you, would you want your friend to tell you? The same principle applies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, I refuse to believe Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar willingly. I am firmly convinced that she was kidnapped against her will. Sadly, this means that Jon Snow is in all likelihood a child of rape.

With that out of the way, I'll humor the prompt. If, hypothetically, Lyanna did run away, than there are a few reasons Eddard would not tell Robert.

1. He dosn't know himself: Lyanna is on her deathbed when Eddard finds her. Its possible she didn't get around to telling him as a result of only having enough time to say a few words.

2. He's trying to spare Robert's feelings: when Robert was dying, Eddard didn't tell him that Joffery was not his son. While it would have made Robert's last moments harder, it would also have given him a chance to ensure someone who's actually of his blood gets the throne (Stannis, Edric, etc.). So it is possible that Eddard would not want to tell Robert that he is in mourning an inexcusably selfish turncloak.

Careful I once posted something similar To the last sentence of your first paragraph and had a poster tell me how offensive it was ad would report me if I did the same. Some people just have trouble admitting that there is at least a good chance and proof that lyanna was taken against her will.

Back to the op I think ned was protecting Robert, he's not very rational and we all know Robert wasn't exactly a crazy king but he was a temperamental one. Basically it would only infuriate Robert and wouldn't solve any issues.

Of course it could also be part of the promise that ned tell no one about the whole situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Such revelations were pointless at this stage and only risked of damaging the enduring relationship between Starks and Baratheons. May I also remind you that this was not a Baratheon war. Rhaegar didn't 'kidnapped' Robert's sister nor Aerys killed Robert's father and brother. They risked everything for Lyanna. If Lyanna is pulled out of the picture that Bob had no reason to fight anymore and may well see the Starks as the ones who created this mess in the first place.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Such revelations were pointless at this stage and only risked of damaging the enduring relationship between Starks and Baratheons. May I also remind you that this was not a Baratheon war. Rhaegar didn't 'kidnapped' Robert's sister nor Aerys killed Robert's father and brother. They risked everything for Lyanna. If Lyanna is pulled out of the picture that Bob had no reason to fight anymore and may well see the Starks as the ones who created this mess in the first place.

Aerys asked for ned AND Roberts head but we can forget that if you want to.

Also about 200 Northmen in KL were murdered alongside Brandon and Rickard. From what we know about the situation Brandon defiantly asked for it but it doesn't justify the other 200 deaths?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we think that Lyanna willingly left with Rhaegar and Ned knew about it, how come Ned never told Robert that Lyanna didn't like him?

The times Robert brough up the matter of Rhaegar kidnapping her, Ned just stands there.

What's the deal with that? I don't see the point of hiding this from Robert. It could've even helped his friend to accept and move on.

I often tought of this too.

Ned could have told Robert -> Hey Robert, Lyana had Rhaegar's baby and made me promise to keep him safe, after all is her son (I don't think Robert would kill her son...if he knew that she loved the child). All this without telling him that Lyanna went willingly.

On the other hand, if he were to tell Robert that the whole rebelion was based on his sisters fake kidnapping.. their whole reason for starting that rebelion would be dishonorable (because that led to his brother and father to die...and afterwards started the war). By the time he found out, he knew that if people were to know they would know that Robert was indeed an usurper by right (in my opinion). Ned went to war with Robert believing in their just cause, take that away and they made a big mistake, all this because of his sister who died in his arms... so.... better keep it a secret and keep the peace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're looking at it from the perspective of a modern person and not someone in a feudal society. The alliance between Baratheon and Stark was a big freaking deal, something put together by Jon Arryn and Rickon Stark as part of the so-called "Southron Ambitions". In the eyes of their society, Lyanna had a duty to go through with it whether she was into Robert or not, and Ned had a duty to obey his father and Lord. Trying to turn Robert off the match, although from our perspective clearly the right thing to do, would be Ned fucking over his family and essentially defying his dad, which is totally Not Cool from the perspective of the super honorable Starks.



After she was dead, assuming that R+L=J, reminding Robert of the fact that she and Rhaegar were together might make him start thinking about Jon, and also just kind of needlessly antagonizes and/or hurts him. Lyanna's dead either way. There's nothing to be gained from it, and plenty of ways it could go wrong. Robert is not even remotely sane about Targaryens, and if he realized Jon's true parentage (plus the fact that Ned lies about it), that puts Jon in mortal danger.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aerys asked for ned AND Roberts head but we can forget that if you want to.

Also about 200 Northmen in KL were murdered alongside Brandon and Rickard. From what we know about the situation Brandon defiantly asked for it but it doesn't justify the other 200 deaths?

He only asked for Robert's head when talks of rebellions were made.

I am not blaming the North for what happened. I am only saying that if you take Lyanna out of the picture than the Baratheons had very little reason to fight the war. May I remind you who made the Baratheons lords of Storm's end in the first place

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But probably Ned didn't know that Lyanna fled. Everyone in Westeros think Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, probably Ned include believed in this until he enter in the Tower of Joy.



And even if Eddard tell Robert that she was not willing to marry him it would be difficult. Robert was very enthusiastic with the match and tell him that she don't want to marry him would hurt Robert very much and could poisoning even more the relationship in its very beginning. May be Ned hopes that Lyanna would love Robert with time. Furthermore, Lyanna was right about his fiance: he would not change and Ned could not discuss it with his sister, because he knew she was right and talk with Robert and say to him stop to get drunk and be a faithful husband would not work.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because of prophecy, and presumably managed to convince her of its importance ("no babe, you don't understand, we need to have sex for the greater good of the realm"). Him being the most handsome man in the world probably didn't hurt though.



We don't know yet what Lyanna told Ned when he came to ToJ, and whether she only begged him to keep Jon's identity secret for his safety, or explained something about prophecy aswell. Either way, Ned is likely very sad and conflicted about the whole thing, and doesn't feel like joining Robert's Rhaegar-roasting.



I don't remember reading it anywhere, but I feel like Lyanna liked Robert back. Something Rhaegar told her made her change her mind.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eddard may have been as upright and honorable and loyal as few in Westeros, but he was no revolutionary: From his point of view, telling Robert that Lyanna didn't want to be with him would have been sabotaging the stability of a crucial marriage. His sister being unhappy in marriage (to his best friend!) was hard to bear for him, but if they ever had a get-together, the "My marriage sucks" club of unhappy wives would need to rent quite a large hall in the Seven Kingdoms.



So from Ned's point of view, speaking up on Lyanna's behalf would have been incredibly out of place for the society he's familiar with, even if that meant watching his sister and his best friend be forced into a sure to be dysfunctional marriage.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...