Tywin and his Stepmother

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The problem with Tywin "dealing with things" is that he's a sadistic mother fucker. He could have sent her away to Braavos with enough money to live comfortable for the rest of her life and never return. "Remember that whore who bewitched Lord Tytos? I heard she escaped to Braavos after stealing his dead wife's jewels". There, problem solved.

But no. Tywin had to let others know that THEY ARE LIONS. Who that woman believed she was to sleep with A LION? To believe she could live in A LION's place? to believe she's equal than A LION?

Besides, that woman made his father happy, what the fuck did he care? At least his father didn't fuck his sister and ruined a Kingdom with bastard babies.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

No, instead we get the whole every monstrosities the Lannisters do are justified and something that every lord would do.

Is providing context to a situation so bad?

And yes, many other nobles would have done some of the monstrous things the Lannisters have done in the series. Obviously the Lannisters being a larger House do things on a much grander scale and not many Lords would have the balls or the command ability to easily wipe out two Houses like Tywin did.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

The problem with Tywin "dealing with things" is that he's a sadistic mother fucker. He could have sent her away to Braavos with enough money to live comfortable for the rest of her life and never return.

How is that a punishment? That sounds like a reward.

She overstepped her place in society, Tywin punished her much like Cersei was punished by the High Septon.

It is wrong on so many levels, bit the nobilities treatment of the smallfolk in general is wrong.

[Minsc]

Is providing context to a situation so bad?

And yes, many other nobles would have done some of the monstrous things the Lannisters have done in the series. Obviously the Lannisters being a larger House do things on a much grander scale and not many Lords would have the balls or the command ability to easily wipe out two Houses like Tywin did.

Because that is not what is being done most of the time, instead it more often nothing but weak justifications pretending their actions are not a big deal.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

How is that a punishment? That sounds like a reward.

She overstepped her place in society, Tywin punished her much like Cersei was punished by the High Septon.

It is wrong on so many levels, bit the nobilities treatment of the smallfolk in general is wrong.

Who says she needed a punishment? She didn't actually bewitched Tytos Lannister, you know? In fact, I think Tytos probably chose her to be his mistress. Tywin needed her gone, simply as that. "Here, take money. Don't come back or you will be killed". But he wanted her humiliated to make a statement. Not to tell her what was "her place" but what was THEIR place: above everyone else.

[James Arryn]

Who says she needed a punishment? She didn't actually bewitched Tytos Lannister, you know? In fact, I think Tytos probably chose her to be his mistress. Tywin needed her gone, simply as that. "Here, take money. Don't come back or you will be killed". But he wanted her humiliated to make a statement. Not to tell her what was "her place" but what was THEIR place: above everyone else.

A little from each column, I think.

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

No, instead we get the whole every monstrosities the Lannisters do are justified and something that every lord would do.

Lol. You seem to be limited a binary thought process.

This isn’t a Lannister family versus other family’s issue. It about the actions of Tywin Lannister. The families span over 1000 years. They aren't all good or evil. Their personalities and character isn’t hereditary. Ned, Robb and Jon are noble people. Other Starks in the past aren't so good.

If Tytos’s father had a mistress, then Tytos would have forgiven her and probably given her some money. Tywin wouldn’t. Being ruthless isn’t some Lannister trait, it’s a personal trait.

[Minsc]

Lol. You seem to be limited a binary thought process.

This isn’t a Lannister family versus other family’s issue. It about the actions of Tywin Lannister. The families span over 1000 years. They aren't all good or evil. Their personalities and character isn’t hereditary. Ned, Robb and Jon are noble people. Other Starks in the past aren't so good.

If Tytos’s father had a mistress, then Tytos would have forgiven her and probably given her some money. Tywin wouldn’t. Being ruthless isn’t some Lannister trait, it’s a personal trait.

The use of Lannisters is going to be primarily in reference to the Lannisters of the series aka Tywin and his brood.

[Boarsbane]

No, instead we get the whole every monstrosities the Lannisters do are justified and something that every lord would do.

So you agree your first point was completely irrelevant and just another attempt to rile us Lannister fanboys up?

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

What I would like to know is why she and Tytos never had children. Wasn't she his mistress pretty long?

But we really do not know enough about her personality if she was a nice person who loved Tytos or a scheming golddigger. In any case I doupt Tywin cared, the problem in his point of view was that her actions caused shame on House Lannister and that had to be dealt with. Kevan seemed to offended by the mothers jewelry part as well, Tywin might have been too so it could have been partially emonational responce. But it was obviously not a good thing. It seems unlikely if it was nessecary but who knows.

And I would also like to know if she was still around by the time Tywin got back from King's Landing or did he order her treatment with a letter. If it was former she was pretty foolish to stay around.

EVen if she loved Tytos, the power went to her head, she acted as if she was the real the Lady of Casterly Rock and selling positions. Tytos was with her only "a few" years before he died. Tywin was in King's Landing at the time.

"She grew so influential that it was said about Lannisport that any man who wished for his petition to be heard should kneel before her and speak loudly to her lap … for Lord Tytos's ear was between his lady's legs".

After his father died, he returned to Casterly Rock from King’s Landing and found his father's mistress trying on one of his late mother's gowns. She was still around and took the piss.

People would have told Tywin wants she's been doing. I suspect the grief and his pride made him exact revenge and make an example of her. .

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Who says she needed a punishment? She didn't actually bewitched Tytos Lannister, you know? In fact, I think Tytos probably chose her to be his mistress. Tywin needed her gone, simply as that. "Here, take money. Don't come back or you will be killed". But he wanted her humiliated to make a statement. Not to tell her what was "her place" but what was THEIR place: above everyone else.

I dont think she would, no one in our society would. Just like I dont think Cersei should have had the same punishment for sleeping with men while unmarried. In their society the powers that be had decided that was the punishment for them.

Tywin didn't invent the Walk of Shame, it was already a punishment in Westeros. A commoner giving the people of the Westerlands orders and wearing(even stealing) his mothers clothes and jewlery would be seen as a criminal.

Unfortunately for her, the one person who could say she had permission to do all that was dead.

[Minsc]

So you agree your first point was completely irrelevant and just another attempt to rile us Lannister fanboys up?

No, my point still stands Lannister fanboys are just bad as the alleged Northern fanboys that people like to complain about. Just like those supposed Northern fanboys ignore their favorite's flaws so to do Lannister fanboys attempt the same by pretending that their actions aren't a big deal.

[Boarsbane]

No, my point still stands Lannister fanboys are just bad as the alleged Northern fanboys that people like to complain about. Just like those supposed Northern fanboys ignore their favorite flaws so to do Lannister fanboys attempt the same by pretending that their actions aren't a big deal.

No one is ignoring his flaws, he's a cold hearted, ruthless bastard, people just think his reaction in the world they live in is nothing special. She humiliated him and his name and he humiliated her back.

[Minsc]

No one is ignoring his flaws, he's a cold hearted, ruthless bastard, people just think his reaction in the world they live in is nothing special. She humiliated him and his name and he humiliated her back.

My very point, this repeated assurance that their actions are nothing special.

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

The problem with Tywin "dealing with things" is that he's a sadistic mother fucker. He could have sent her away to Braavos with enough money to live comfortable for the rest of her life and never return. "Remember that whore who bewitched Lord Tytos? I heard she escaped to Braavos after stealing his dead wife's jewels". There, problem solved.

But no. Tywin had to let others know that THEY ARE LIONS. Who that woman believed she was to sleep with A LION? To believe she could live in A LION's place? to believe she's equal than A LION?

Besides, that woman made his father happy, what the fuck did he care? At least his father didn't fuck his sister and ruined a Kingdom with bastard babies.

You are applying modern values to a feudal society. Even 60 years ago in the US. Living with partner you aren’t married to was living in sin. What you have suggested is a reward. Tywin is all powerful and that power is based on fear. Given the society and the fact Tywin is notoriously harsh, the mistress should have been more careful. Have a relationship with Tytos but no need to flaunt it and sell positions. No respectable family would have accepted her.

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

My very point, this repeated assurance that their actions are nothing special.

You are applying modern values to a feudal society. Tywin's actions are nothing special in Westeros. He hasn't broken any law! We are not saying that he is not a cold-hearted and ruthless bastard. But the vast majority of people were like that, they had omnipotent power and no one to say no to them. They ruled by fear and divine right.

The whole society is screwed up. We can hold a relativist view because its a fictional story. If this was happening in say present day Canada, we'd send him to jail.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You are applying modern values to a feudal society. Even 60 years ago in the US. Living with partner you aren’t married to was living in sin. What you have suggested is a reward. Tywin is all powerful and that power is based on fear. Given the society and the fact Tywin is notoriously harsh, the mistress should have been more careful. Have a relationship with Tytos but no need to flaunt it and sell positions. No respectable family would have accepted her.

The defence of "modern values" doesn't apply for Tywin because he's been seen as a cruel monster by others. While mostly Lords have their moments of arrogance, cruel bastards are rather odd.

Look at Doran Martell. His daughter, the heir of Dorne, had sex with a bastard and he even asked for his hand. I don't remember Doran imprisoning the guy for daring to be with Arianne.

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

How is that a punishment? That sounds like a reward.

She overstepped her place in society, Tywin punished her much like Cersei was punished by the High Septon.

It is wrong on so many levels, bit the nobilities treatment of the smallfolk in general is wrong.

Totally agree.

Slightly off topic. The whole concept of universal human rights is a very modern idea and it isn't necessarily envitable for everyone to have equal rights. It has to be fought for and preserved.

The civil rights act 1964 in the US is just over 50 years old. Places like India, China, Sebia and Saudi have horrible human rights records and are led by a poweful and corrupt elite.

Put into a real world context: I hope Tywin, who is barbaric is disposed and punished but in the Westeros fictional context, it makes sense.

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

The defence of "modern values" doesn't apply for Tywin because he's been seen as a cruel monster by others. While mostly Lords have their moments of arrogance, cruel bastards are rather odd.

Look at Doran Martell. His daughter, the heir of Dorne, had sex with a bastard and he even asked for his hand. I don't remember Doran imprisoning the guy for daring to be with Arianne.

I'm not disagreeing he is ruthless, cold hearted bastard and its a disgrace what he did to Tysha.

In Westeros he hasn't broken the law but she had as an adultress.

If you cross him he will make you pay. The mistress was aware of this and continued to wear his mother's clothes when he returned for his father's funeral.He had to make an example of her.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

The defence of "modern values" doesn't apply for Tywin because he's been seen as a cruel monster by others. While mostly Lords have their moments of arrogance, cruel bastards are rather odd.

Look at Doran Martell. His daughter, the heir of Dorne, had sex with a bastard and he even asked for his hand. I don't remember Doran imprisoning the guy for daring to be with Arianne.

Because he was a noble bastard. Noble bastards are held in higher esteem than the smallfolk. And the main difference is that they did not get married.

This is like comparing apples with jumbo jets. Bizarre comparison.