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Appearance of Aegon


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Is there a legit description of Aegon as an infant?

From what I remember it is said that Rhaenys took after her mother (brown eyes, dark hair), but there is no description of Aegon as an infant (from what I remember). What if, like Rhaenys he took after his mother? Wasn't he his grandfathers hostage from birth. If so, not many people saw him. Those who did could claim that the real Aegon had the Dornish look, making young Griff a fake.

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If anyone alive had seen him as an infant when Aerys' hostage it would be Varys as his job was to know everything. He wouldn't make such a basic mistake with a fake Aegon looking nothing like the real one.

And Pycelle, who's now conveniently dead

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If anyone alive had seen him as an infant when Aerys' hostage it would be Varys as his job was to know everything. He wouldn't make such a basic mistake with a fake Aegon looking nothing like the real one.

Well the problem isn't Varys, as he's the one person who knows for certain who Aegon is. It's with everyone else: is there anyone else still around who knows what Aegon looked like as a baby? Even if Aegon hadn't had his noggin pulped, would Robert actually have seen him before, or been able to recognise him? He was at most two years old, and children change quickly at early ages.

Even if Aegon would have grown up to look like a Martell it's possible he'd have had fair hair as an infant. A lot of children who grow up to be dark do, especially when there's fair hair somewhere in their genepool.

But he apparently had fair hair as a baby in any case.

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He was described as having the Targ look by GRRM in some interview/chat. But the last time someone saw Aegon in Westeros he was one year old. He's around 18 now. Unless he had a very recognisable trait or birthmark, any other kid with purple eyes and silvery hair could pass as Aegon. And even some birthmarks disappear in real life (in fantasy, they're the closest thing to DNA tests as it can be, though).


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If anyone alive had seen him as an infant when Aerys' hostage it would be Varys as his job was to know everything. He wouldn't make such a basic mistake with a fake Aegon looking nothing like the real one.

He was fair haired, but either way the current kid was chosen at 4 at the latest, so his turning out very Targish would qualify as a lucky break if it was a choice.

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I'm pretty sure Aegon resembled a Targaryen whilst Rhaenys looked like a Martell. Aegon had fair hair and I would assume he would have fair skin and purple eyes? Anyway, Varys and Illyrio are lucky that there are barely anyone alive who took care of an infant Aegon to discover any birthmarks or defects.

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Jaime & Barristan are all that are left of Aerys's court. Doran might now of an identifying mark if his sister mentioned it to him at all. presumably if Jon Con knew of any he would have allready checked for it.



I think the fact Varys killed Pycelle is very telling though. Because of everyone still living he is most likely to know of a birth mark.


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Aegon was born on Dragonstone. There is no way for anyone in KL to know if the child brought from Dragonstone was Aegon or not. Not even Pycelle would be able to know this. If Rhaegar arranged to have Aegon taken into hiding before he left Dragonstone, then no one in KL could have identified the body as Aegon even if the face hadn't been smashed.



As GRRM has said Aegon looked Targ, I think we have to accept that Aegon looked Targ.


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What possible reason would Rhaegar & Elia have for sending their son away?



I 100% accept he looked targ. There is no reason at all to suspect otherwise.



Pycelle was the Grand Maester at KL, he would have been the person who examined both Royal children when they were ill, or just to monitor their growth ect. IMo the reason Varys just killed him is because he would be able to tell that fAegon is fake. Which means most likely a birthmark.

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Aegon was born on Dragonstone. There is no way for anyone in KL to know if the child brought from Dragonstone was Aegon or not. Not even Pycelle would be able to know this. If Rhaegar arranged to have Aegon taken into hiding before he left Dragonstone, then no one in KL could have identified the body as Aegon even if the face hadn't been smashed.

As GRRM has said Aegon looked Targ, I think we have to accept that Aegon looked Targ.

Why would Rhaegar do such a thing?

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Jaime & Barristan are all that are left of Aerys's court. Doran might now of an identifying mark if his sister mentioned it to him at all. presumably if Jon Con knew of any he would have allready checked for it.

I think the fact Varys killed Pycelle is very telling though. Because of everyone still living he is most likely to know of a birth mark.

Jaime and Barristan know nothing. Doran sends his daughter to check on Aegon. Check for what?

What makes you think Jon Con hasn't checked for anything? "Varys has something that convinced Jon Con" is a much better assumption than "Jon Con took the word of someone he dislikes and distrusts for proof".

Pycelle was less likely to know of anything than Doran, and Pycelle is about as reliable on this subject as he is re: Marg asking him for moon tea. The entire small council is calling Aegon a feigned boy, maybe Varys should have killed them all?

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Why would Rhaegar do such a thing?

If (and I do say if) the rumors about Aerys and Rhaegar being at odds are true, Rhaegar may have been concerned about leaving his heir is a position for his father to take him hostage (which Aerys did end up taking Rhaegar's family hostage). So many believe that Rhaegar was planning to take action against his father, but then fail to realize that this would give Rhaegar himself a reason to hide his heir from his father.

Jaime and Barristan know nothing. Doran sends his daughter to check on Aegon. Check for what?

What makes you think Jon Con hasn't checked for anything? "Varys has something that convinced Jon Con" is a much better assumption than "Jon Con took the word of someone he dislikes and distrusts for proof".

Pycelle was less likely to know of anything than Doran, and Pycelle is about as reliable on this subject as he is re: Marg asking him for moon tea. The entire small council is calling Aegon a feigned boy, maybe Varys should have killed them all?

I think this is a very good point. JonCon is a bitter and suspicious guy. I find it hard to believe that he wasn't given some very good proof that Aegon was indeed Rhaegar's son.

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Jaime and Barristan know nothing. Doran sends his daughter to check on Aegon. Check for what?

What makes you think Jon Con hasn't checked for anything? "Varys has something that convinced Jon Con" is a much better assumption than "Jon Con took the word of someone he dislikes and distrusts for proof".

Pycelle was less likely to know of anything than Doran, and Pycelle is about as reliable on this subject as he is re: Marg asking him for moon tea. The entire small council is calling Aegon a feigned boy, maybe Varys should have killed them all?

As far as we are aware jaime & Barristan know nothing. But we have to bear in mind that barristan saw Rhaegar for a decent length of time after he left Lyanna at the ToJ, they will have spoken and Rhaegar had no reason to not tell his KG that Lyanna was carrying his child. Jaime was in KL and never saw Rhaegar again after he left to meet/"abduct" Lyanna.

Doran Sends Arianne to check fAegon out, maybe indeed there is something to check on specifically but she doesn't indicate anything in the sample chapters we have in which she is thinking about how she might know if he is real or fake.

If there is something to check for, and Jon Con is aware there is, surely he would do so? To be presented with a boy and told he is Aegon and know Aegon had some identifying mark and then not check for it would be ludicrous! So we can assume that there is either no such mark, or that if there is Jon Con is unaware of it, indeed why would he know about one, say Aegon had a birthmark on his body in an area which is usually covered up, say his buttock, Why would Jon con be aware of it, But those who care for him directly, change his nappies, bathe him etc or say perform his medical checks. They would know. Jon Con wasn't round Elia's apartments changing nappies and bathing her baby. And he wasn't performing his hip score check or his monthly growth checks. pycelle though, quite possibly would have been monitoring Aegon & Rhaenys growth and would have seen them naked.

I'm jesting I'm not suggesting pycelle gave elia a little red book and advised her when to start solids, lol. But i do think as the physician he'd have seen the royal children naked. Because monitoring babies growth whilst a modern obsession has always been done to one extent or another.

We have no reason to think Varys has shown some proof to Jon Con nothing hints that he has done so. Jon Con believes because he desperately wants to believe. We know he feels he failed his silver prince and that returning Aegon to the throne is his redemption.

pycelle who was in the red keep with Aegon and who is the medical practitioner to the royal household, has far more reason to have seen a birthmark than Elia's brother in Dorne. But I absolutely think there is a chance Doran might know. because Elia is his sister and she would write him news of his nephews birth and describe her son to him.

Pycelle has no reason to lie about Aegon's identity. When the bodies are presented to robert Baratheon and he see's that Aegon is not truly Aegon why would he not speak up? He is trying to ingratiate himself to Roberts court. He has no reason to keep this a secret. but if Pycelle saw the bodies and it was the real Aegon, and a pretender pops up he could identify that person as a fake. Because he can say I saw the body it was him, he had a birthmark on his buttock and it was present upon the body presented. Drop yer pants kid if you are who you say you are you should have the birthmark. And at this Point pycelle has motivation to prove fAegon is Fake because he has cast his lot entirely with the Lannisters. So if he has knowledge that can prove the boy a fake, Varys has motivation to kill him, but without such motivation why has Varys murdered him?

the entire Small council is calling the boy feigned, But only Pycelle can potentially prove it.

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As far as we are aware jaime & Barristan know nothing. But we have to bear in mind that barristan saw Rhaegar for a decent length of time after he left Lyanna at the ToJ, they will have spoken and Rhaegar had no reason to not tell his KG that Lyanna was carrying his child. Jaime was in KL and never saw Rhaegar again after he left to meet/"abduct" Lyanna.

Doran Sends Arianne to check fAegon out, maybe indeed there is something to check on specifically but she doesn't indicate anything in the sample chapters we have in which she is thinking about how she might know if he is real or fake.

If there is something to check for, and Jon Con is aware there is, surely he would do so? To be presented with a boy and told he is Aegon and know Aegon had some identifying mark and then not check for it would be ludicrous! So we can assume that there is either no such mark, or that if there is Jon Con is unaware of it, indeed why would he know about one, say Aegon had a birthmark on his body in an area which is usually covered up, say his buttock, Why would Jon con be aware of it, But those who care for him directly, change his nappies, bathe him etc or say perform his medical checks. They would know. Jon Con wasn't round Elia's apartments changing nappies and bathing her baby. And he wasn't performing his hip score check or his monthly growth checks. pycelle though, quite possibly would have been monitoring Aegon & Rhaenys growth and would have seen them naked.

I'm jesting I'm not suggesting pycelle gave elia a little red book and advised her when to start solids, lol. But i do think as the physician he'd have seen the royal children naked. Because monitoring babies growth whilst a modern obsession has always been done to one extent or another.

We have no reason to think Varys has shown some proof to Jon Con nothing hints that he has done so. Jon Con believes because he desperately wants to believe. We know he feels he failed his silver prince and that returning Aegon to the throne is his redemption.

pycelle who was in the red keep with Aegon and who is the medical practitioner to the royal household, has far more reason to have seen a birthmark than Elia's brother in Dorne. But I absolutely think there is a chance Doran might know. because Elia is his sister and she would write him news of his nephews birth and describe her son to him.

Pycelle has no reason to lie about Aegon's identity. When the bodies are presented to robert Baratheon and he see's that Aegon is not truly Aegon why would he not speak up? He is trying to ingratiate himself to Roberts court. He has no reason to keep this a secret. but if Pycelle saw the bodies and it was the real Aegon, and a pretender pops up he could identify that person as a fake. Because he can say I saw the body it was him, he had a birthmark on his buttock and it was present upon the body presented. Drop yer pants kid if you are who you say you are you should have the birthmark. And at this Point pycelle has motivation to prove fAegon is Fake because he has cast his lot entirely with the Lannisters. So if he has knowledge that can prove the boy a fake, Varys has motivation to kill him, but without such motivation why has Varys murdered him?

the entire Small council is calling the boy feigned, But only Pycelle can potentially prove it.

But we learn in TWOIAF that Aegon was not born in KL. Pycelle was not the one who delivered him. If the boy brought to KL was not Aegon, then Pycelle never would have even seen Aegon. To insist that Pycelle is the person who would know the best if Aegon was Rhaegar's son or not is to ignore the fact that Pycelle was not the one who delivered Aegon, and wouldn't have seen Aegon until he was several months old. Pycelle would have had to take Elia's word for it that the boy brought to KL was Aegon.

Edit: fixed bad grammar.

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Why on earth would elia and Rhaegar hide their son away with varys & take a fake baby to KL?



and if they did for some unfathomable reason do this, then why doesn't Varys tell us that in the book, instead he says the switch happened in KL during the Sack. Why would he lie about that? And what possible reason would two parents have for doing that?


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WW's eyes:

Fair point about Barristan.

The assumption you're making about Jon Con is not what you would normally assume about anyone in this situation. You're only discarding the logical assumption that he was given some kind of proof because that's what fits your preconception. And you're also saying Varys has his 20-years-in-the-making master plan hinge on people trusting his word.

And my point about Pycelle was that if he didn't have proof he'd just make it up, and the value of a Lannister lapdog saying "this boy is a fake" is zero. Even if there was something about a birthmark in his books you'd still have to take his word that the dead boy bore that mark, so his testimony is exactly as good as the rest of the small council's.

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Why on earth would elia and Rhaegar hide their son away with varys & take a fake baby to KL?

and if they did for some unfathomable reason do this, then why doesn't Varys tell us that in the book, instead he says the switch happened in KL during the Sack. Why would he lie about that? And what possible reason would two parents have for doing that?

If, as it is rumored, Rhaegar was planning to move against his father, then it would make sense that Rhaegar would take the precaution of hiding his heir from his father.

Actually, we are not told the particulars about when and how Aegon was taken into hiding. The general assumption is that the switch occurred during the Sack, but that is never actually stated in the novels. As we see in TWOIAF that Rhaegar himself may have had a reason to hide Aegon from his father, an option not available for Rhaenys since she had already been presented to her grandfather. To me, TWOIAF makes quite a point about Rhaenys having been introduced to her grandfather, but not Aegon. This could be very significant.

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