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Why are the Stormlands loyal to Renly over Joffrey Baratheon?


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As far as the Storm lords are aware Joffrey is Roberts son, and thus both there king and Lord seeing how Robert is the true Lord of SE but gives the seat to Renly because he takes the Red Keep as his seat instead Robert dies and Renly tried to Ursurp his nephews crown.

Why do the Stormlords all agree to help Renly? Is there no honor in the Stormlands ? I find it an error by Grrm to make no mention of some lords with holding there strength from Renly. Hell they didn't all help Robert when he called his banners against the mad king.

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Why do the Stormlords all agree to help Renly? Is there no honor in the Stormlands ? I find it an error by Grrm to make no mention of some lords with holding there strength from Renly.

He did. In the prologue of ACOK, Stannis notes that some of the Stormlords stayed home, and some others (the bold ones) declared for Renly. When Cat sees Renly's camp, he is only able to confirm the support of 7 of the Stormlands' 19 notable houses (I'm judging "notable" by it being important enough to have a named holdfast). And he could even be lying about a couple of those, considering this is within ten seconds of him lying about his army sizes.

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He did. In the prologue of ACOK, Stannis notes that some of the Stormlords stayed home, and some others (the bold ones) declared for Renly. When Cat sees Renly's camp, he is only able to confirm the support of 7 of the Stormlands' 19 notable houses (I'm judging "notable" by it being important enough to have a named holdfast). And he could even be lying about a couple of those, considering this is within ten seconds of him lying about his army sizes.

Yes, I quite agree with the interpretation that most of the SL supported Renly because ~ negative description of Renly.

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Yes, I quite agree with the interpretation that most of the SL supported Renly because ~ negative description of Renly.

I'm not sure what one's feelings on Renly have to do with this. The OP asked why all the Stormlords supported Renly. He thought it was a plot hole. I simply pointed out that they didn't all support him. Therefore, no plot hole.

Though there is the small plot hole that everyone seems to believe Joff is a bastard when neither Ned nor Stannis offered up a lot of proof. I mean... in this world, Robert's 16 bastards looking nothing like his "real" kids would probably be enough evidence. But no one seems to make that connection before Jon Arryn.

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Because Joffery was considered a Baratheon in name only. There is nothing to suggest that Joffery had a good relationship with the Stormlands. Joffery is associated with the Lannisters even in AGOT at Winterfell you see him surrounded by Lannister soldiers, it's all Lannister all the time with Joffery except his name and part of his sigil.

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When Cat sees Renly's camp, he is only able to confirm the support of 7 of the Stormlands' 19 notable houses (I'm judging "notable" by it being important enough to have a named holdfast). And he could even be lying about a couple of those, considering this is within ten seconds of him lying about his army sizes.

Or Renly (and Martin) didn't go around listing every single house that followed him seeing how listing out 19 plus houses along with the numbers from the Reach would be unwieldy and come off as clunky.

Seeing how the majority of the Houses that you have mentioned as not supporting him the Wiki instead presumes that they did.

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Or Renly (and Martin) didn't go around listing every single house that followed him seeing how listing out 19 plus houses along with the numbers from the Reach would be unwieldy and come off as clunky.

Seeing how the majority of the Houses that you have mentioned as not supporting him the Wiki instead presumes that they did.

Or the unseen houses are the houses Stannis said were staying neutral. Which seems like the most simple and logical assumption, rather than assuming everyone supported Renly.

Then the wiki is wrong, unless there's evidence that those houses declared for him. I wouldn't even be sure that, say, the Tarths and Selmys declared for him. This is the same conversation where he claims to have 100,000 foot rather than 60,000, and he doesn't claim that those houses support him at that moment to begin with.

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Then the wiki is wrong, unless there's evidence that those houses declared for him. I wouldn't even be sure that, say, the Tarths and Selmys declared for him. This is the same conversation where he claims to have 100,000 foot rather than 60,000, and he doesn't claim that those houses support him at that moment to begin with.

Is there evidence that they didn't declare for him? If not then your opinion is no more fact then the wiki's. Especially, seeing how you are now attempting throw out houses that are directly mentioned as supporting him.

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As all the regions did, they obbey their Liedge Lord.

Sarcasm?

The North and Dorne seem to be the best at keeping their banners in line. Possibly the Iron Islands as well.

The West under Tywin has done this well, but I think like other Southern Houses they have had divided loyalties in certain civil wars and rebellions within their own lands in the last 300 years.

Anyway we know from both Renly and the Appendix which Stormlands(and Reach) Houses were loyal to Renly.

It is clear that some Stormlands Houses like Swann were neutral rather than pick a side between Renly, Joffrey and Stannis.

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Is there evidence that they didn't declare for him? If not then your opinion is no more fact then the wiki's. Especially, seeing how you are now attempting throw out houses that are directly mentioned as supporting him.

The wiki should simply say that nothing is stated about who they declared for (I'll change it when I feel like doing so), since they could fall into either the pro-Renly or neutral categories. There needs to be evidence that they DID, not evidence that they didn't. They're not even mentioned to have declared for him- Renly implies that they did, while at the same time lying about his own military power in the same conversation, and saying stuff that doesn't line up with basic logic.

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I was under the impression from the wiki that mostly all of the Storm lords supported Renly, I understand that Renly is their liege lord but they have also took an oath to there king who is also there true liege lord. I mean come on Renly is the 3rd born son and is intitled to NOTHING at all, but Robert being a good brother gives him SE and instead of supporting Roberts son and heir he trys to Ursurp his nephews crown, if I was an honorable man I'd back Joffrey Baratheon over Renly it's the right thing to do.

Just because the reader knows Joffrey is jamies bastard doesn't mean any Lord of the Stormlands should think otherwise even if Renly and Stannis claim they are bastards. Robert was loved by most the Stormlords and they spat in his face. Hell I wondered why Tywin didn't try and remind the Stormlords their oath

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Renly's the lord of Storm's End.

The castle and title that goes with it were invested in him. Renly's the true lord of Storm's End as much as Robert was.

EDIT: Also bastard feudalism, men are more loyal to their immediate lords than the king plus it's obvious that the court will be entirely Lannister based, supporting Renly against Joffrey is much more beneficial for the Stormlords and considering what we know about Renly and how he wins friends it's not too surprising that his own retainers would rather back him than the Lannister controlled son of their former lord, whether they loved him or not.

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I wouldn't even be sure that, say, the Tarths and Selmys declared for him.

Why would he lie infront of his own bannermen, Brienne, Stannis and Davos who was we know from the prologue had been at Tarth himself to get support. He would look like a fool as something like that is easily checkable.

Why would George himself lie in the Appendix by stating that "LORD SELWYN OF TARTH" is in service to the King of Highgarden? We know that Lord Swann is not included as his bannermen in the appendix despite his son serving Renly.

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I think we're making this more complicated than it needs to be. It was obvious Joffrey was a Lannister tool even without the incest knowledge. This, Robert dying under mysterious circumstances and Renly's charisma and influence given he's Lord of Storm's End, is enough to sway them to his banner.


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I think we're making this more complicated than it needs to be. It was obvious Joffrey was a Lannister tool even without the incest knowledge. This, Robert dying under mysterious circumstances and Renly's charisma and influence given he's Lord of Storm's End, is enough to sway them to his banner.

No one really thought it mysterious. If they had they'd possibly be suspecting Renly himself as he was with Robert on his hunting trip.

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Sarcasm?

The North and Dorne seem to be the best at keeping their banners in line. Possibly the Iron Islands as well.

The West under Tywin has done this well, but I think like other Southern Houses they have had divided loyalties in certain civil wars and rebellions within their own lands in the last 300 years.

Anyway we know from both Renly and the Appendix which Stormlands(and Reach) Houses were loyal to Renly.

It is clear that some Stormlands Houses like Swann were neutral rather than pick a side between Renly, Joffrey and Stannis.

Im talking about the WOT5K

even the narrow sea lords followed Stannis. Lysa hold all the vale lords in check despite they wanted to fight, the north answered as a whole to Robb, the west to tywin etc. The RL didnt get Freys at first call, but mostly Lords did as their liedges.

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Same reason why many lords backed Daemon Blackfyre over Daeron and his sons during his rebellion. The thing is Renly looks physically more Baratheon than his 'nephew' and by some accounts is the spitting image of a younger Robert. Plus he also inherited his brother's charisma and abilities to make friends and inspire loyalty.


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Why would he lie infront of his own bannermen, Brienne, Stannis and Davos who was we know from the prologue had been at Tarth himself to get support. He would look like a fool as something like that is easily checkable.

Why would George himself lie in the Appendix by stating that "LORD SELWYN OF TARTH" is in service to the King of Highgarden? We know that Lord Swann is not included as his bannermen in the appendix despite his son serving Renly.

It's not a matter of why. Because we know that he does. In that same conversation, he claims to have 100k foot. He doesn't have 100k foot, he has 60k, or 67k if you count what's at Highgarden. So he probably looked like a fool then, just like he looked like a fool when he declared Doran and Stannis would declare for him right as they were rejecting him (is it any wonder 9 unrelated characters all call him a fool?). Or like when he said Stannis's only cavalry were freeriders in boiled leather while Stannis himself + that 2005 RPG confirmed that Stannis's cavalry were knights (plus, it's extremely unlikely he had ANY freeriders with him to begin with; any freeriders would be with Renly). Renly exaggerates or lies even when he really doesn't need to. It's just who he is.

Oh, did it say that? Well, that settles the issue of Tarth then. There's still 12 other houses with named holdfasts that probably fall into that category Stannis mentioned of "too cautious to declare for Renly". Swann probably didn't serve Renly, since supplemental material says Lord Swann doesn't want to commit lives to future wars.

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