Why are all best sword fighters high born?

[King Gendry Baratheon]

There are some parts that I find a bit unrealistic in AsoIaf and one is highborn sword fighters in Westeros. Nearly all of them are awesome in battle expect of Samwell Tarly, yes I know they have trained with Master at arms at their keeps and has great armor., but surely other boys too get a chance to train with masters? Maybe I have short memory, but only equal good sword fighter that I remember among lowborn is Bronn.

Surely some other a bit richer lowborn with good tactic and some armor should sometimes win these sons of lords? I don't remember a single part where a lords son is slain by a lowborn.

Opinions and fill in lowborn great sword fighters that I have forgot.

[Gregor Clegane's head]

No ones going to waste their precious time training lowborns since it takes years and tons of money to get good at sword fighting. Maybe Dunk would do something like that but lowborns simply don't have the connections or money.

[EddardsHead]

Low born boys never even get a chance to hold a sword let alone become skilled in fighting with one. Dunk was lowborn as lowborn gets and he was pretty good strictly based off lucky circumstance. Daario was lowborn as well and learned himself through the fighting pits.

[JonSnow4President]

There are some parts that I find a bit unrealistic in AsoIaf and one is highborn sword fighters in Westeros. Nearly all of them are awesome in battle expect of Samwell Tarly, yes I know they have trained with Master at arms at their keeps and has great armor., but surely other boys too get a chance to train with masters? Maybe I have short memory, but only equal good sword fighter that I remember among lowborn is Bronn.

Surely some other a bit richer lowborn with good tactic and some should sometimes win these sons of lords?

Opinions and fill in lowborn great sword fighters that I have forgot.

It's all a matter of training. Some kid in Africa could have the talent to be the next Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, Peyton Manning, or JJ Watt. But without the free time to play football, access to experienced coaches to teach him how to play football, and some way of getting into a position to play football, he's never going to realize the athletic talent.

And if you insist, Jon is arguably lowborn, and has been mentioned as a good fighter. Daario is supposed to be good. We don't know Grey Worm's skill. The pit fighters seem to be capable, albeit without the experience of taking on armored foes.

[Sullen]

1. Highborn males have very little to do except fighting, so they train... a lot.

2. Smallfolk have to work if they wish to survive, they don't simply have to time to train.

3. The Nobles have access to experienced teachers.

4. The Nobles tend to be fed better, which means they grow bigger and stronger.

5. Swords are expensive, armor doubly so.

[eyenon15]

Along with the points already made about the training.

as far as who is regarded as the realms finest fighter's its probably a bit of popularity contest too. Like no one in universe would probably ever regard pre-noble Bronn among the best fighters in Westeros.

[King Gendry Baratheon]

Thanks for the answers, but opinions about how Bronn managed to be so good? Surely he or some other Sworn sword would be able to win some lord or his sons at a battle? But It is always high born who kills each other.

[Trigger Warning]

Besides all the points about access to equipment, horses, training and tnobles pretty much living for martial matters there's the fact that if a mounted noble dies to a lowborn person it's probably going to be a group effort or go unremarked on because it's essentially, oh the duke died to some guy. Whereas if he falls to another noble they'll actually know who did the deed.

[Dolorous22]

Swords and tutors are expensive.

[TheMaester]

1. Highborn males have very little to do except fighting, so they train... a lot.

2. Smallfolk have to work if they wish to survive, they don't simply have to time to train.

3. The Nobles have access to experienced teachers.

4. The Nobles tend to be fed better, which means they grow bigger and stronger.

5. Swords are expensive, armor doubly so.

If we apply human history to aSoIaF, it is only highborn/knights who could afford a sword. Most commoners or foot soldiers used weapons consisting mostly of wood. Such as spears and axes.

[King Gendry Baratheon]

Besides all the points about access to equipment, horses, training and tnobles pretty much living for martial matters there's the fact that if a mounted noble dies to a lowborn person it's probably going to be a group effort or go unremarked on because it's essentially, oh the duke died to some guy. Whereas if he falls to another noble they'll actually know who did the deed.

Yes thats a good point, It must be in some cases like this.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

1. Highborn males have very little to do except fighting, so they train... a lot.

2. Smallfolk have to work if they wish to survive, they don't simply have to time to train.

3. The Nobles have access to experienced teachers.

4. The Nobles tend to be fed better, which means they grow bigger and stronger.

5. Swords are expensive, armor doubly so.

If we apply human history to aSoIaF, it is only highborn/knights who could afford a sword. Most commoners or foot soldiers used weapons consisting mostly of wood. Such as spears and axes.

Swords actually weren't particularly expensive, at least not by the late middle ages, by the late 14th and 15th centuries (roughly when ASOIAF is based around) there were enough swords in circulation that anyone with an okay job could afford one.

Footsoldiers (along with every other type of soldier) used weapons mostly made up of wood because they offer superior reach and superior ability to harm an armoured opponent.

[Aemond's Eye]

Thanks for the answers, but opinions about how Bronn managed to be so good? Surely he or some other Sworn sword would be able to win some lord or his sons at a battle? But It is always high born who kills each other.

Bronn doesn't fight like a tourney knight - it's why he was effective against Ser Vardis Egen. As to how he became skilled? We can't answer that as we don't know his background. We know that he wasn't highborn and that he killed before he was a man grown, but not much else. He could have fought in Robert's Rebellion, given his age.

And generally in battles it comes down to various factors, but it wouldn't have made much sense for some peasant to have cut down Rhaegar. (We know that Harren The Red was killed by Lord Alyn Stokeworth's squire, though not who that squire is. Presumably he was a noble.) Smallfolk wouldn't have the skills or experience to kill a warrior and battle commander - especially as the smallfolk wouldn't have been likely to have been outfitted with armour and swords. We know that some have been killed by mobs, which makes more sense than them being killed by smallfolk in battle.

Swords actually weren't particularly expensive, at least not by the late middle ages, by the late 14th and 15th centuries (roughly when ASOIAF is based around) there were enough swords in circulation that anyone with an okay job could afford one.

Footsoldiers (along with every other type of soldier) used weapons mostly made up of wood because they offer superior reach and superior ability to harm an armoured opponent.

Swords and armour don't seem to be inexpensive in ASOIAF though.

[TheMaester]

Swords actually weren't particularly expensive, at least not by the late middle ages, by the late 14th and 15th centuries (roughly when ASOIAF is based around) there were enough swords in circulation that anyone with an okay job could afford one.

Footsoldiers (along with every other type of soldier) used weapons mostly made up of wood because they offer superior reach and superior ability to harm an armoured opponent.

You are most correct sir. :cheers:

[Balerion the kitten]

Low born boys never even get a chance to hold a sword let alone become skilled in fighting with one. Dunk was lowborn as lowborn gets and he was pretty good strictly based off lucky circumstance. Daario was lowborn as well and learned himself through the fighting pits.

Pit fighter daario is show daario, he's not book daario. His history hasn't been mentioned yet.

And a few Targaryens in AWOIAF are said to be bookish and non warriors.

Example- Daeron the good, Aerys the first, Aenys, Baelor and maester Aemon.

It just depends what they're interested in. Just happens most like sword fighting and the idea of being a knight.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

Lowborns went to war carrying modified garden tools. They have very little training and as mentioned above, were concentrating on not starving to death as opposed to 'playing war'.

Bronn is a sellsword...and fights dirty (or against all rules of chivalry) Chances are, he learned his craft as a bandit and acquired his equipment by robbing someone.

[Boarsbane]

There are some pretty good low born fighters like Mance, Daario, Bronn, Andrik the Unsmiling and Qhorin. Of course you'll never see their numbers match rich men who train most their lives

[eyenon15]

It's like nascar, the guys who have big time corporate sponsors always beat the guys with lesser sponsorship that cant afford the best equipment.

[Sielk]

And that's not different in our world's history. Also in our middle age there were almost only nobles. Peasants didn't get a chance to become knights.

Besides you shouldn't forget that the status as a knight means nobility too. Most knights were nobles and I don't think that they were eager to train common boys and rise them to equals.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Bronn doesn't fight like a tourney knight - it's why he was effective against Ser Vardis Egen. As to how he became skilled? We can't answer that as we don't know his background. We know that he wasn't highborn and that he killed before he was a man grown, but not much else. He could have fought in Robert's Rebellion, given his age.

And generally in battles it comes down to various factors, but it wouldn't have made much sense for some peasant to have cut down Rhaegar. (We know that Harren The Red was killed by Lord Alyn Stokeworth's squire, though not who that squire is. Presumably he was a noble.) Smallfolk wouldn't have the skills or experience to kill a warrior and battle commander - especially as the smallfolk wouldn't have been likely to have been outfitted with armour and swords. We know that some have been killed by mobs, which makes more sense than them being killed by smallfolk in battle.

Swords and armour don't seem to be inexpensive in ASOIAF though.

Maybe not, but they have had steel swords and mail for 2-4,000 years, obviously the oldest wouldn't be useable unless they happened to get into very specific conditions, however I believe (not seen any solid figures) that a sword can last for 200-300 years or more if properly maintained, lords and knights probably won't use second hand, so the swords belonging to them go down the classes.

Swords and armour may be expensive in Westeros (though swords seem common enough that I think everyone with a decentish job can afford one) but they certainly shouldn't be.