Wavey Sauce Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Season 1 Viserys maybe? When Arya hears him down in the black cells, he was talking about that they needed to keep the oncoming war delayed and they were not ready yet. As he did have a roll in plotting for someone. But the scene where Ned walks out on King Bob and the small council, Varys agrees that she needs to be killed, and she would have been killed if not for Jorah. He did not try to stop it or make sure there never was a chance etc. Also even when Tywin asks him if his little birds can get into Mereen, he has one of his little birds bring that document to Selmy that showed him Jorah used to be a spy, and broke up one of her most trusted people and commanders. If he was all plotting for her why would he actually follow through with it and have one of his little birds get to Selmy and help Tywins plan. There is a few more situations as well, it really almost looks like D and D had planned to have him back someone else but never casted set character (Young Griff possibly?) But he for sure did not do Dany any favors when it came to making sure she lived and got the things and people she has with her. He was reporting her movements through his spies to the crown the whole time, and not once did he ever seem to be planning to help Dany. So do you guys think he just decided to back her after seeing that all the possible Kings were bad for the kingdoms? That cant really be the case if he was plotting as he was in the black cells in season 1 when Bob was still king. Multiple plot holes and mistakes, but as far as season 1 only one I can think of that makes sense is Viserys. If not him maybe a bastard Targ somewhere? Either way it does not all add up and make sense from then to what he is doing now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 edit wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord BitterRaven Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In the show, it has Varys and Illyrio backing Viserys and then Daenerys, it doesn't really go into detail which one. In the books, they begin by backing their Aegon, now it seems to be both, or should I say, either or. Though they might have a great deal to answer for if they ever meet Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byfort of Corfe Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I think that Varys goes whichever way the wind is blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 In the show, it has Varys and Illyrio backing Viserys and then Daenerys, it doesn't really go into detail which one. In the books, they begin by backing their Aegon, now it seems to be both, or should I say, either or. Though they might have a great deal to answer for if they ever meet Daenerys. If so Varys would have tried to prevent the hit the king put on her and her unborn son. And he also would not have had one of his kid spies sneak Tywins document into Mereen to get Jorah to be banished etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byfort of Corfe Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If so Varys would have tried to prevent the hit the king put on her and her unborn son. And he also would not have had one of his kid spies sneak Tywins document into Mereen to get Jorah to be banished etc Indeed, Varys is definitely down with the plot to kill Dany and her baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Indeed, Varys is definitely down with the plot to kill Dany and her baby. Even after she had dragons and an army he still played no part in helping her at all, as said he did Tywins bidding to cause discontent with her close council and the plan worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Even after she had dragons and an army he still played no part in helping her at all, as said he did Tywins bidding to cause discontent with her close council and the plan worked That's right, I was forgetting that one. He even told Tywin about Dany in the first place, when in the books he was subtly downplaying the rumors about her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 That's right, I was forgetting that one. He even told Tywin about Dany in the first place, when in the books he was subtly downplaying the rumors about her Yep at the small council meeting he gave reports down to the T. Of her unsullied and second sons, dragon sizes etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihlus Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 But apparently he was planning on this since the beginning. Like, since Robert became king. Suddenly siding with Daenerys in season 5 is literally not consistent at all with ANY of his previous actions. What changed his mind? Daenerys failing at ruling, and pissing off half of Essos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bib Fortuna Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Varys was originally plotting to bring Viserys over to Westeros. When he participated in the hit on Dany, Viserys was still alive, remember. Dany was useless to Varys' plans. But like the master tactician he is, once Robert's assassin failed, he began quietly backing Dany instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihlus Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Varys was originally plotting to bring Viserys over to Westeros. When he participated in the hit on Dany, Viserys was still alive, remember. Dany was useless to Varys' plans. But like the master tactician he is, once Robert's assassin failed, he began quietly backing Dany instead. So his plan was to attempt to transport 40,000 unarmored, untrained, stupid rapists, along with 200,000 horses, to Westeros with this massive fleet they apparently have, and then hope they can take many times their number in trained, disciplined, well-equipped soldiers, when these same horsemen failed against pathetic, ill-equipped eunuchs? All in the hopes of putting Viserys on the throne and turning Westeros into a slaver stronghold because ???. Was that his plan? If so, then even ignoring how stupid it is, how is at all consistent with his given reasons for siding with Daenerys? And his back story where he says he's been planning this since Robert's victory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrion Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 We should wait to Season 5 is over before making judgements. Varys intentions werent really revealed outright till the Epilogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ni2tre Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If Varys was looking out for "our country" he wouldn't plot to bring a thousand Dothraki rapers in Westeros and would back the Tyrell-Lannister alliance to end the war and not start another by backing another invader with 3 fucking dragons.I really hope Varys is playing Tyrion because whatever he's told Tyrion so far sounds like utter bullshit to anyone who's paid attention to his actions as late as S4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 But apparently he was planning on this since the beginning. Like, since Robert became king. Suddenly siding with Daenerys in season 5 is literally not consistent at all with ANY of his previous actions. What changed his mind? Daenerys failing at ruling, and pissing off half of Essos? My thoughts exactly. And there is no way he could have wanted to support Joffrey the whole time or anyone from the Lannister branch. But as I said in the black cells when Arya heard him they were plotting to put someone on there, but based on his actions its hard to make a case for either targ. I think they just messed up and left plot holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 So his plan was to attempt to transport 40,000 unarmored, untrained, stupid rapists, along with 200,000 horses, to Westeros with this massive fleet they apparently have, and then hope they can take many times their number in trained, disciplined, well-equipped soldiers, when these same horsemen failed against pathetic, ill-equipped eunuchs? All in the hopes of putting Viserys on the throne and turning Westeros into a slaver stronghold because ???. Was that his plan? If so, then even ignoring how stupid it is, how is at all consistent with his given reasons for siding with Daenerys? And his back story where he says he's been planning this since Robert's victory? Also he had to have known if Dany died then Drogo sure as hell would have no reason to even consider caring about the Iron Throne, other then some revenge reasons. But if he was planning for Viserys and is pro targ it would be beyond dumb to lower the overall chances by letting one die, especially when Viserys is a big mouth moron who cant control his temper and was a matter of time before he over stepped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If Varys was looking out for "our country" he wouldn't plot to bring a thousand Dothraki rapers in Westeros and would back the Tyrell-Lannister alliance to end the war and not start another by backing another invader with 3 fucking dragons.I really hope Varys is playing Tyrion because whatever he's told Tyrion so far sounds like utter bullshit to anyone who's paid attention to his actions as late as S4. Exactly. I guess they could make it out to be like "well, after Tywin died I knew Cersei was going to screw everything up eventually, so I decided to back Dany" which makes a modicum of sense, but at least in the books I feel the Kevan-Margaery-Tommen triarchy had a lot of potential to achieve peace and Varys still shot it to pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One And Only Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Varys trying to have Dany killed proves nothing. He has said multiple times that he won't go directly against who is ruling. He testified against Tyrion despite being on his side. There are two sides to Varys. The side that he has to show in public. This is the one that helped Robert try to kill Dany and Tywin convict Tyrion. And then there is the one in private. The one that was plotting for a Targaryan takeover (Season 1) and helped Tyrion escape (Season 4). While there has been changes from the books, the show version has not waved in how he does things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracarysOO Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Iirc didn't Varys send a message to Jorah about the poisoned wine along with the pardon? Otherwise how did he know the wine was poisoned?Besides, why would Varys support Viserys if he probably knew he was mad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Varys trying to have Dany killed proves nothing. He has said multiple times that he won't go directly against who is ruling. He testified against Tyrion despite being on his side. There are two sides to Varys. The side that he has to show in public. This is the one that helped Robert try to kill Dany and Tywin convict Tyrion. And then there is the one in private. The one that was plotting for a Targaryan takeover (Season 1) and helped Tyrion escape (Season 4). While there has been changes from the books, the show version has not waved in how he does things. He testified knowing he was going to help him escape anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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