Blackwood>Bracken?

[Skinner]

I agree 100%. With this GRRM really went into a valley, even the Boltons and Freys are given a more sympathic write-up than the Brackens!

RIP Domeric

😭

[Aetta]

So much for characters being all grey eh?

In an SSM somewhere that I am not inclined to find right now, Martin makes clear that you are supposed to make some inferences as to character-For example, he said the Starks are indeed supposed to be his "good" guys (my paraphrase).

In essence, even grey has shades.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

In an SSM somewhere that I am not inclined to find right now, Martin makes clear that you are supposed to make some inferences as to character-For example, he said the Starks are indeed supposed to be his "good" guys (my paraphrase).

In essence, even grey has shades.

Ahaha fair enough

[sertravisredbeard]

GRRM seems to go out of his way to make every Bracken seem like a prick and almost every Blackwood seem very honorable and noteworthy. The only exception I can think of is Lothar Frey, who is Blackwood on his mother's side. But she died young and he got most of his upbringing influenced by the paragon of chivalry Walder Frey. Every Bracken mentioned in TWOIAF sucks and so does Jonos. They also have a guy named the "Brute" which is a great nickname to pick up. Doesn't the Bracken during the Unworthy's time go out of his way to raise his granddaughter to become the Unworthy's next mistress. Dude's got high hopes for his family.

[The BlackBear]

They also have a guy named the "Brute" which is a great nickname to pick up.

I think it's meant to be a slightly unfair name, deaths in Melees are not uncommon. It's just that it was a Blackwood and a Bracken fighting. In the Hedge Knight he doesn't seem too much of a bad guy:

Dunk reined up before Ser Otho Bracken, lowering his voice. “Ser Otho, all know you for a great champion. Join us, I beg you. In the names of the old gods and the new. My cause is just.”

“That may be,” said the Brute of Bracken, who had at least the grace to reply, “but it is your cause, not mine. I know you not, boy.”

[Lion of the West]

The above part is a mark in Bracken's favor, but fact is still that its just one single no-total-asshole moment in a sea of assholes.

[The hairy bear]

I've been thinking that there may be an instance where the Brackens side with the morally superior/wining side of a conflict:

Fact 1: Both Cat and Edmure note that Brackens and Blackwoods always choose different sides in a conflict.

Fact 2: Catelyn says to the Bracken men-at-arms at the inn that "My father counts Jonos Bracken among his oldest and most loyal bannermen".

Fact 3: The mad king was one quarter Blackwood.

So... do you think that's possible that the Blackwoods (perhaps Tytos' father) sided with the Mad King against the rebels? Or at least they remained neutral? I think that it's a very strong possibilty.

[Skinner]

I've been thinking that there may be an instance where the Brackens side with the morally superior/wining side of a conflict:

Fact 1: Both Cat and Edmure note that Brackens and Blackwoods always choose different sides in a conflict.

Fact 2: Catelyn says to the Bracken men-at-arms at the inn that "My father counts Jonos Bracken among his oldest and most loyal bannermen".

Fact 3: The mad king was one quarter Blackwood.

So... do you think that's possible that the Blackwoods (perhaps Tytos' father) sided with the Mad King against the rebels? Or at least they remained neutral? I think that it's a very strong possibilty.

Ive looked in my World Book and found something new.

It turns out the Blackwoods came from the North and may have been the ones that took land from the other.

[Lion of the West]

I've been thinking that there may be an instance where the Brackens side with the morally superior/wining side of a conflict:

Fact 1: Both Cat and Edmure note that Brackens and Blackwoods always choose different sides in a conflict.

Fact 2: Catelyn says to the Bracken men-at-arms at the inn that "My father counts Jonos Bracken among his oldest and most loyal bannermen".

Fact 3: The mad king was one quarter Blackwood.

So... do you think that's possible that the Blackwoods (perhaps Tytos' father) sided with the Mad King against the rebels? Or at least they remained neutral? I think that it's a very strong possibilty.

I'd love it to be a bit more grey like that, but I'm not holding my breath since we hear nothing about the Blackwoods being loyalists, while several other, to my knowledge, lesser Houses are pointed out. Also both Blackwood and Bracken were on the same side during Robb's War.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I've been thinking that there may be an instance where the Brackens side with the morally superior/wining side of a conflict:

Fact 1: Both Cat and Edmure note that Brackens and Blackwoods always choose different sides in a conflict.

Fact 2: Catelyn says to the Bracken men-at-arms at the inn that "My father counts Jonos Bracken among his oldest and most loyal bannermen".

Fact 3: The mad king was one quarter Blackwood.

So... do you think that's possible that the Blackwoods (perhaps Tytos' father) sided with the Mad King against the rebels? Or at least they remained neutral? I think that it's a very strong possibilty.

Maybe. We don't really hear about Blackwoods though tbh. The only thing that really tips it either way imo is the RPG saying that Tytos is "a skilled warrior and a friend of the Starks of Winterfell." Can't really see Eddard being too friendly with someone who sided with the man who wanted him dead and killed his father and brother.

[Skinner]

Maybe. We don't really hear about Blackwoods though tbh. The only thing that really tips it either way imo is the RPG saying that Tytos is "a skilled warrior and a friend of the Starks of Winterfell." Can't really see Eddard being too friendly with someone who sided with the man who wanted him dead and killed his father and brother.

Yeah, for all we know, they would make the Brackens fight for the Mad King. Because they are EVIL!!!!

😈

[Alester Florent]

The Brackens were one of the first houses to rise up against the Storm Kings when Harwyn Hoare invaded. Now, whether you count that as a virtue or not is debatable: the histories seem to suggest that the Riverlands were chafing against the Stormlands yoke and wanted rid of them, so rebelling could be seen as the right thing to do. Unfortunately, the Hoares turned out to be even worse.

In The Mystery Knight the Brute of Bracken gets another mention when they're discussing whether he'll join them, and they anticipate he will, if only because it'll be hard for him not to, but he doesn't come to the tourney initially. Do we know if the Brackens fought for the Blackfyres? (Other than Bittersteel).

It seems the Brackens have the family trait of "opportunism" but that might be because they're persistently worse off than the Blackwoods and will take any chance they get to regain the land and status they believe is rightfully theirs. If you're on the side of the Brackens the chances are they look a virtuous but unfortunate house who've been smacked down more times than anyone can care to mention but keep bouncing up off the canvas for another go rather than admitting defeat, while the Blackwoods have had a ridiculous run of luck and been granted all sorts of advantages and preferential treatment after sucking up to whoever's in charge at the time.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

The Brackens did fight for the Blackfyres. Lord Bracken was supposed to bring Myrish crossbownmen, but the rivers were flooded or something.

[Lion of the West]

Maybe. We don't really hear about Blackwoods though tbh. The only thing that really tips it either way imo is the RPG saying that Tytos is "a skilled warrior and a friend of the Starks of Winterfell." Can't really see Eddard being too friendly with someone who sided with the man who wanted him dead and killed his father and brother.

To be honest, wasn't Eddard kind of friendly with Barristan Selmy and also held the other Kingsguards in high regard?

[BitsOfBrains]

Yeah but Bracken women have bigger boobs so I mean it's kind of equal as far as I can tell.

[Tiggy4Real]

They intermarry a lot though.

[Lion of the West]

They intermarry a lot though.

It don't seem to have much influence on their character.

[The Wolves]

This is my favorite house rivalry in the whole series.

I do prefer the Blackwoods but I like the Brackens also their rivalry doesn't seem as deadly as other house rivalries.

[Skinner]

Yeah but Bracken women have bigger boobs so I mean it's kind of equal as far as I can tell.

But the hills...

[MallisterTheMighty]

If the Blackwoods claim they came from the wolfswood then they definitely usurped the Bracken kingship once they were driven out of the north, since you very well cant rule the wolfswood AND Raventree hall, the matter of distance is too great.

And furthermore i think Jonos Bracken doesnt get the right amount of respect. People like to blame him for switching sides quicker than most after the Red Wedding, but really didnt Stone Hedge get sacked not once but TWICE? ( cant remember if that's true or not, i KNOW it was brutally sacked by the Mountain once). Kinda hard to stay with a cause when your own lands were the ones so brutally ransacked especially when your "King" gets slaughtered. Yea he is a jerk who really only does the opposite of whatever Tytos does just out of spite but that's thousands of generations of hate that really needs someone remarkable to just "let go". So i dont blame him. Tytos is clearly the more honorable one but its rather naive to say "Blackwood = Good, Bracken = Douche".