Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 We're past 400. Continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 spocrank/methlehem's dominant politics is idaho-panhandle crazy, so they're certain to drum up a presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Sologdin,Oh, this could be "interesting". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I believe when we left off we were discussing how we're all hypocrites because a hypothetical left wing group could hypothetically attempt similar actions to the Puppies at some point in the future? Not sure why they would though, I thought they already controlled the world of SF award politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Not sure why they would though, I thought they already controlled the world of SF award politics. i'm more interested in who "they" are. Which "they" are we talking about? The lumpenproletariat? 4chan? some sub-reddit? Requires only that you Hate sock-puppets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagilki Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Somewhat off topic. I'd love to go to a worldcon someday. This year will most likely be out, I'm not sure when it is.... next six months? I've currently started a kidney treatment that's shut down my immune system and that'll last the next six months. Add that in trying to figure out how to get a fake leg and I can't financially make it. Sorry for off-topicing and whining, just had to slightly vent and at the same time mention how I've always wanted to visit a con. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 What were some good books that could have been nominated on their merit and not through some bullshit gimmick this year ? What would the ideal nominees have looked like ? Anybody read enough SFF books this year ? I believe when we left off we were discussing how we're all hypocrites because a hypothetical left wing group could hypothetically attempt similar actions to the Puppies at some point in the future? Not sure why they would though, I thought they already controlled the world of SF award politics.e That wasn't how I read it at all. It seemed more like calling out the puppies and their supporters; they claim to be the people's voice fighting to reclaim the Hugos from the 'clique' or whatever; what will their excuse be when not only a slate is created that backs diversity and all those 'despicable' things the clique promotes but the majority overwhelmingly approves ?The problem with such reading however is that it assumes the issue at heart of it all is political. It's not. It's not about rescuing Hugos from the cabal, it's not about the latest manifestation of the right-wings backlash against diversity in SFF and it's certainly not about talent and meritocracy. Vox Day and what's-his-name clearly pulled off a con here to win some Hugos for their publishing house. It's simple as that. Everything else they claim it's about is simply to drum up support for them. Edit : Yup nobody's calling those who can see through this nonsense as hypocrites. :The point was that these publishers with self-serving interests drummed up support from one end of the political spectrum; if tomorrow someone else plays this same trick, only appealing to the opposite end what will the reaction of these puppies be then ?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 City of Stairs not being nominated blows my simple SjW brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagathai Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Re: the history of urban fantasy, my god. Charles De Lint, Mercedes Lackey, Roger Zelazny, Diane Duane. Tanya HUff. Hell, Daniel Manus Pinkwater if you want to go YA/middle grade. Bruce Coville, FFS. To call Butcher the godfather is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Yagathai,It's about as accurate as calling Butcher the "Godfather of Detective Fiction" because Deresden is a PI and a wizard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 What were some good books that could have been nominated on their merit and not through some bullshit gimmick this year ? What would the ideal nominees have looked like ? Anybody read enough SFF books this year ? That wasn't how I read it at all. It seemed more like calling out the puppies and their supporters; they claim to be the people's voice fighting to reclaim the Hugos from the 'clique' or whatever; what will their excuse be when not only a slate is created that backs diversity and all those 'despicable' things the clique promotes but the majority overwhelmingly approves ? The problem with such reading however is that it assumes the issue at heart of it all is political. It's not. It's not about rescuing Hugos from the cabal, it's not about the latest manifestation of the right-wings backlash agaibst diversity in SFF and it's certainly not about talent and meritocracy. Vox Day and what's-his-name clearly pulled off a con here to win some Hugos for their publishing house. It's simple as that. Everything else they claim it's about is simply to drum up support for them. I think that Beale's "con" started way before PuppyGate and so has his attempts to self-aggrandisement. As for Larry Correia he is not a "publisher" and his Publishing House is Bean which if it wanted to drum up support for some Hugo's would have had more established author's then Correa lead the charge (and as both GRRM and Correia have noted Bean's financial backing came from Tom Doherty, who is Tor's founder and Publisher of Tor so I really do not see the purpose for a Publishing House lead "con" unless you are claiming the entire debate is Doherty's brainchild to increase the visibility of all his holdings and increase there sales across the board. I have met Mr. Doherty and while he he struck me as a charming and intelligent fellow he definately did not strike me as the Evil Genius type.) . Solo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horselover Fat Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Somewhat off topic. I'd love to go to a worldcon someday. This year will most likely be out, I'm not sure when it is.... next six months? I've currently started a kidney treatment that's shut down my immune system and that'll last the next six months. Add that in trying to figure out how to get a fake leg and I can't financially make it. Sorry for off-topicing and whining, just had to slightly vent and at the same time mention how I've always wanted to visit a con.Me too, they got close to me with Renovation but I couldn't make it. I won't make it this year either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 An interesting tidbit from Larry Correia's blog "Somebody make sure this bit gets back to GRRM. He wanted to know if he could have input on SP4 nominees. Not my call, talk to Kate. She’s in charge next year and I don’t know what she’s going to do. However, I’m guessing that since Brad just took suggestions on his blog for things that were worthy, quality works that would normally not have a chance of getting nominated, from authors who were normally ignored, and your suggestions fit that, then sure. Suggest away." http://monsterhunternation.com/ Looks like GRRM might want to get on the ground floor of shaping the Sad Puppies slate for next year, how do you fellows feel about that? :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagathai Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Except of course that someone analyzed all the suggestions given in the blog comments this year and found that they had an almost negligible effect on the final slate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 .... Hmm, my bad. That's what i get for skim reading. As an aside. I kind of hope the puppies are onto something. I like the idea of some left wing international shadowy cabal decided to focus all its wealth and resources on rigging (rather mediocrely at that) a single SF award Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 What were some good books that could have been nominated on their merit and not through some bullshit gimmick this year ? What would the ideal nominees have looked like ? Anybody read enough SFF books this year ? I can only speak for myself, but I was honestly surprised not to see Elizabeth Bear on there for either the last novel in her 'Eternal Sky' trilogy or the whole thing. I suspect that might be part of the problem - a lot of people were talking about nominating it as a series, which might have split the vote. Other than that... not a huge amount of obvious candidates, which may also have played a part in the success of the Puppies slates. An interesting tidbit from Larry Correia's blog "Somebody make sure this bit gets back to GRRM. He wanted to know if he could have input on SP4 nominees. Not my call, talk to Kate. She’s in charge next year and I don’t know what she’s going to do. However, I’m guessing that since Brad just took suggestions on his blog for things that were worthy, quality works that would normally not have a chance of getting nominated, from authors who were normally ignored, and your suggestions fit that, then sure. Suggest away." http://monsterhunternation.com/ Looks like GRRM might want to get on the ground floor of shaping the Sad Puppies slate for next year, how do you fellows feel about that? :drool: As noted previously, Brad Torgersen solicited suggestions but then appears to have drawn up the list based on what he felt like putting on it. Vox Day certainly just put stuff that he wanted on his list, and to be blunt - his was the list that mattered more. So, while it's nice that the Puppies may listen to suggestions, it's an offer that costs them nothing (and commits them to nothing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Valkyrie Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I found of some interest this comment by Nick Mamatas, known SF/F gadfly, about the personal relationships evinced on the SP slate, as it's already known that it was strongly curated and not remotely a reflection of what people submitted for consideration:http://file770.com/?p=22013&cpage=4#comment-252892 It’s true that not all SP3 authors are conservative. Brad also took into account his personal relationships and aspirations:Anderson is his publisher via Wordfire, and famous.Butcher is famous and Brad would like to be.Resnick is Brad’s “writer dad.”English is a friend of his and was published by his writer dad. Also she’s in Writers of the Future, which Brad has a strong association with.Ballet was in an anthology co-edited by Hugh Howey and Brad sure would like to go indie but make Hugh Howey $$ one day. Also she’s in Writers of the Future, which Brad has a strong association with.Brozek worked with Brad pal Schmidt so they are best editors—despite zero stories from the anthology they produced being worthy of Brad’s slate. (At least the English story was published by Resnick, and Resnick got an editor nod.)The Maze Runner is based on a novel by Brad’s co-religionist.How many members of the SP slate (excluding the movie/tv stuff) are a. not famous and b. strangers to Brad? It’s always remarkable to me when it just so happens that the best people in the field are one’s pals.I think he's reaching on a few of those, but the KJA and Resnick ones are very clear. (And I should add that Mamatas has commented about people on the other side of the aisle as well for nominating their friends and their style of self-promotion, IIRC Seanan McGuire was one of them when everything she wrote got nominated for a few years.)On another note, I'm flabbergasted at all the Puppies talking about how they didn't realize how the Hugos were awarded and how unfair it is, etc. What is Google? It takes no time to figureout that the Hugos are voted on by the members of Worldcon. OT: THE SERVER IS ROBUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Yagathai,It's about as accurate as calling Butcher the "Godfather of Detective Fiction" because Deresden is a PI and a wizard."Godfather of Wizard Detective Fiction" then? Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 "Godfather of Wizard Detective Fiction" then? Maybe? It might not be about a wizard but Glen Cook's Garret P.I has him beaten in the whole magical detective genre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 What were some good books that could have been nominated on their merit and not through some bullshit gimmick this year ? What would the ideal nominees have looked like ? Anybody read enough SFF books this year ? IMHO James SA Corey's "Cibola Burn" for one. And I normally never, ever, ever read new novels since I tend to only get the cheap stuff and I live in the arse end of nowhere so it's Kindle or Death for me. I did get this one in hardback though which is extremely unusual and noteworthy. Sorry for off-topicing and whining, just had to slightly vent and at the same time mention how I've always wanted to visit a con. I hope you get to go one day, the BWB are a great bunch and it's amazing to get to hang out with so many interesting and nice people. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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