jagilki Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Godfather of Harry Dresden Fiction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Llama Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Worthy stuff from last year that could have been on an excellent best novel ballot? I've read a slightly worrying number of books from last year [just over fifty now I think], and on first readings many of them would I think have been varying degrees of deserving of this kind of recognition [have not yet read City of Stairs, though I have it now, Memory of Water, or The Book of Strange New Things, which I expect will be contenders]: Leckie's Ancillary Sword and Addison's The Goblin Emperor deserve to be here [and would have been on my nomination ballot if I'd gotten my shit together to get involved, which I freely admit I did not.] Both are splendid and deserving of much praise. [Three-Body Problem is near the top of my to be read pile now so I can't yet speak to it.] In fantasy, I am one of those people who thinks Bear's Steles of the Sky -- or the whole Eternal Sky trilogy -- should be here. I am only half-way through Gibson's The Peripheral, but unless its quality implodes to a degree we don't often see in the last two hundred pages I am very, very puzzled as to why it isn't here. Excellent. Very thoroughly Gibson. This is one of the omissions that really mystifies me. On the "literary" end of the spectrum, Mandel's Station Eleven would be a credit to the list. With the caveat that this could be new-shininess bias, since I just finished it, Lauren Beukes' Broken Monsters is excellent, and would I think be deserving of this kind of recognition. Beyond these, there are also numerous things from last year the nomination of which would have made good sense to me even if I wouldn't quite have gone there myself: James Cambias' A darkling Sea, Jo Walton's My Real Children, M. R. Carey's The Girl With All the Gifts, Daryl Gregory's Afterparty, Cherie Priest's Maplecroft, Max Gladstone's Full Fathom Five, and just maybe Hurley's The Mirror Empire [for its inventiveness and energy despite its structural problems, which I think are substantial] and Scalzi's Lock In [which I think is his best in some time.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagathai Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 "Godfather of Wizard Detective Fiction" then? Maybe? *buzzer* "http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22cast+a+deadly+spell%22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 *buzzer* "http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22cast+a+deadly+spell%22 Or even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraxas (with the first one being a WFA winner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowjack Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I don't want to trash Butcher (the Dresden Files is very good at what it does)...but with the Puppies rabidly and sadly embracing him should at least give him the heebie jeebies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 I wonder if Butcher really cares? He's at Dragoncon every year which means he almost never comes to Worldcon. Has Butcher ever come to Worldcon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 How are they putting the next slate together already? It's still fucking April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagilki Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Fighting SJW-Oppression takes planning and time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowjack Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I wonder if Butcher really cares? He's at Dragoncon every year which means he almost never comes to Worldcon. Has Butcher ever come to Worldcon? I view the puppies slate as a bit of a post hoc erog propter hoc. They are nominated,therefore they must be fellow travelers...especially in light of the withdrawal of nominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Crowjack,Nah, Butcher is just staying silent. I've never liked the "silence as assent" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowjack Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 However, when it is all said and done...this is a bloodbath over AWARDS. Not exactly earth shattering.Not worth all the ad hominem attacks...all the straw man arguments...all the strained logical fallacies... These are industry awards. This is not nearly as damaging or unsavory as the Requires Hate fiasco. The troubling aspect is that there is a real divide in the world and neither side appears to be willing to acknowledge that the other side is anything but batshit crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 However, when it is all said and done...this is a bloodbath over AWARDS. Not exactly earth shattering. Not worth all the ad hominem attacks...all the straw man arguments...all the strained logical fallacies... These are industry awards. This is not nearly as damaging or unsavory as the Requires Hate fiasco. The troubling aspect is that there is a real divide in the world and neither side appears to be willing to acknowledge that the other side is anything but batshit crazy. Going by the general discussion there aren't really sides though. There is a small group of discontents yapping against a large majority, a majority which is continuously arguing with itself under normal circumstances. Just look at the absence of 'we should reform the hugo awards' discussion that exposed other camps in fandom in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 What were some good books that could have been nominated on their merit and not through some bullshit gimmick this year ? What would the ideal nominees have looked like ? Anybody read enough SFF books this year ? Out of the books I nominated I'd say Claire North's The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August would have been the most deserving. I hadn't read it at the time and I'm only halfway through now but I think Robert Jackson Bennett's City of Stairs could have been another good contender. I also nominated Adrian Tchaikovsky's The Seal of the Worm, Rachel Bach's Heaven's Queen, Richard Morgan's The Dark Defiles and Ben Aaronovitch's Foxglove Summer, but didn't really expect most of those to have much chance of getting on the ballot. I did consider Ancillary Sword out of the actual nominees, but felt it was a bit of a step down from Ancillary Justice even if it's still a reasonable nominee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagathai Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I wonder how Aaronovitch's Rivers series goes over with the Puppies. It's the same genre as Butcher, but a black protag and less emphasis on macho derring-do. Theoretically it should be pretty high up on their "what we REALLY want is diversity and new voices" agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Rhinos Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 There's no need to speculate about what would have been nominated if not for the puppies. After the Hugos are done the long list will be posted that shows the top 15 nominees in each category. Just take out the puppy slates and you'll see what would have been there. *buzzer* "http://lmgtfy.com/?q...a deadly spell" "Buzzer" Garrett P.I.'s first book came out in 1987. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowjack Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Crowjack,Nah, Butcher is just staying silent. I've never liked the "silence as assent" argument. I usually agree...but it something that has blown up this big in the fantasy/Sci Fi community, one can only make such an assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowjack Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I wonder how Aaronovitch's Rivers series goes over with the Puppies. It's the same genre as Butcher, but a black protag and less emphasis on macho derring-do. Theoretically it should be pretty high up on their "what we REALLY want is diversity and new voices" agenda. You know the puppies won't go for Aaronovitch...his daddy was super commie in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beniowa Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 My own nominations for this year were: Half a King, Joe Abercrombie (Del Rey )A Darkling Sea, James L. Cambias (Tor)The Mirror Empire, Kameron Hurley (Angry Robot)The Three-Body Problem, Cixin Liu and translated by Ken Liu (Tor)The Bees, Laline Paull (HarperCollins) Actually if you look at the Sad Puppy Slate, they are much more inclusive then the SJW's. Moreover, while there may be a book for everyone it remains true that last year for instance the awards went to all white males and one Asian male,Well Beale is a rich white man, but i doubt most of the organizers of the Sad Puppies would qualify, In fact Larry Correia for one is not rich and although "White" when filling out those obnoxious government forms fills in Hispanic, or White Hispanic or some such. Moreover if you bothered to actually look at either the Sad Puppy or the Rapid Puppy Slate instead of simply trashing it you would find that it includes women, non-whites and lefties. Bullshit. You keep keep harping about the puppy slate having more diversity and ignoring people when they correct you so I'm going to try again. So let's compare the four fiction categories and the Campbell from last year with this year and see how we do. Some of the puppy nominations for this year are a little obscure so finding information isn't always easy. Writers like Cordova and Vajra are probably white, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to bother with political affiliation since as GRRM has said that can get complicated. Each entry gets one count. 2014:Best NovelAncillary Justice, Ann Leckie - white womanNeptune’s Brood, Charles Stross - white manParasite, Mira Grant - white womanThe Wheel of Time, Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson - white man (only counting Jordan)Warbound, Book III of the Grimnoir Chronicles, Larry Correia - man of colorBest Novella“Equoid”, Charles Stross - white manSix-Gun Snow White, Catherynne M. Valente - white woman“Wakulla Springs”, Andy Duncan and Ellen Klages - white man and white woman“The Chaplain’s Legacy”, Brad Torgersen - white manThe Butcher of Khardov, Dan Wells - white manBest Novelette“The Lady Astronaut of Mars”, Mary Robinette Kowal - white woman“The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling”, Ted Chiang - man of color“The Waiting Stars”, Aliette de Bodard - woman of color“The Exchange Officers”, Brad Torgersen - white man“Opera Vita Aeterna”, Vox Day - white manBest Short Story“The Water That Falls on You from Nowhere”, John Chu - man of color“Selkie Stories Are for Losers”, Sofia Samatar - woman of color“If You Were a Dinosaur, My Love”, Rachel Swirsky - white woman“The Ink Readers of Doi Saket”, Thomas Olde Heuvelt - white manThe John W. Campbell Award for Best New WriterSofia Samatar* - woman of colorMax Gladstone* - white manWesley Chu - man of colorRamez Naam* - man of colorBenjanun Sriduangkaew - woman of color 2015:Best NovelAncillary Sword by Ann Leckie - white womanThe Dark Between the Stars by Kevin J. Anderson - white manThe Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison - white womanThe Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu, translated by Ken Liu - man of color (not counting Ken LIu)Skin Game by Jim Butcher - white manBest NovellaBig Boys Don’t Cry by Tom Kratman - white man“Flow” by Arlan Andrews, Sr. - white manOne Bright Star to Guide Them by John C. Wright - white man“Pale Realms of Shade” by John C. Wright - white man“The Plural of Helen of Troy” by John C. Wright - white manBest Novelette“Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust, Earth to Alluvium” by Gray Rinehart - white man“Championship B’tok” by Edward M. Lerner - white man“The Day the World Turned Upside Down” by Thomas Olde Heuvelt, Lia Belt Translator - white man (not counting Lia Belt)“The Journeyman: In the Stone House” by Michael F. Flynn - white man“The Triple Sun: A Golden Age Tale” by Rajnar Vajra - man of colorBest Short Story (1174 nominating ballots)“On A Spiritual Plain” by Lou Antonelli - white man“The Parliament of Beasts and Birds” by John C. Wright - white man“A Single Samurai” by Steven Diamond - white man“Totaled” by Kary English - white woman“Turncoat” by Steve Rzasa - white manThe John W. Campbell Award for Best New WriterWesley Chu* - man of colorJason Cordova - man of colorKary English* - white womanRolf Nelson - white manEric S. Raymond - white man 2014 Tally:white women - 6women of color - 4white men - 9men of color - 5 2015 Tally:white women - 4women of color - 0white men - 17men of color - 4 So Cub, in other words, you're talking out of your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Crowjack,Butcher doesn't comment on politics. That his policy and the policy on the Butcher forum I also post on. That's his call and I will not condemn the man for being consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Moody Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 About a week ago Butcher was asked for a comment about the Hugo controversy on Twitter, and replied, "People keep proclaiming their stance on everything, acting like politicians, and then get all shocked when things become politicized." Then later that day someone else asked separately how he felt about it, and he answered, "Like someone who thinks others should make up their own minds about it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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