Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Who now remembers the Armenians? I Do.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_GenocideThe Armenian Genocide[8] (Armenian: Հայոց ցեղասպանություն Hayots tseghaspanutyun),[note 3] also known as the Armenian Holocaust,[9] the Armenian Massacres and, traditionally by Armenians, as Medz Yeghern (Armenian: Մեծ Եղեռն, "Great Crime"),[10] was the Ottoman government's systematic extermination of its minority Armenian subjects inside their historic homeland, which lies within the territory constituting the present-day Republic of Turkey. The total number of people killed as a result has been estimated at between 1 and 1.5 million. The starting date is conventionally held to be 24 April 1915, the day Ottoman authorities rounded up and arrested, subsequently executing, some 250 Armenian intellectuals and community leaders in Constantinople. The genocide was carried out during and after World War I and implemented in two phases: the wholesale killing of the able-bodied male population through massacre and subjection of army conscripts to forced labour, followed by the deportation of women, children, the elderly and infirm on death marches leading to the Syrian desert. Driven forward by military escorts, the deportees were deprived of food and water and subjected to periodic robbery, rape, and massacre.[11][12][13] Other indigenous and Christian ethnic groups such as the Assyrians and the Ottoman Greeks were similarly targeted for extermination by the Ottoman government, and their treatment is considered by many historians to be part of the same genocidal policy. The majority of Armenian diaspora communities around the world came into being as a direct result of the genocide.A link to the PBS documentary on the Genocide:https://vid.me/O7L/armenian-genocide-pbs-documentary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Ambar Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 You better wish there are no Turkish Board Members here. You are, after all, 'insulting Turkishness'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 No, I'm remembering the Genocide. It's not my fault the Turkish government refuses to acknowledge what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Ambar Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I don't think you got it. I am merely pointing out that the Turkish Government actually files criminal charges against those who acknowledge the genocide on the grounds of 'Insulting Turkishness', which as bizzare as it sounds is actually a real thing. It's a good thing you've started this thread and I'm positively surprised by the lack of posts- but that might mostly be because most people don't know about it. After all many nations don't formally recognize it, for Turkey might throw a childish fit. After all, those people just died during "relocation" and it was only an "unfortunate consequence of war." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 OWT, The PBS special that aired last night mentioned the Turkish Government's practice of attempting to silence anyone (even Turkish Historians) who acknowledge the truth of the Genocide against the Armenians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 According to Article 301 of Turkish Penal Code it is a crime to criticize Turkey, it's governmants and institutions, in short any sort of criticism of Turkey is a crime. If there ever was a law brazenly meant to be a tool of silencing voices ; this is it. The Armenian Genocide gets woefully short attention. It's one of the worst crimes against humanity commited, a full-scale genocide, and yet the reaction is to look the other way and whistle whenever this topic is raised. Possible reason is many officers involved went on to become the National heroes and founding fathers of Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 KiB, What was interesting was that Turkey convicted three men, in absentia (they had fled), of organizing the killings of Armenians. And now denies the Genocide. From the wiki on the Genocide: The term Three Pashas, which include Mehmed Talaat Pasha and Ismail Enver (the main perpetrators of the Genocide), refers to the triumvirate who had fled the Empire. This happened at the end of World War I, on the night of 2–3 November 1918 with the aid of Ahmed Izzet Pasha. In 1919 they were sentenced to death in absentia at the trials in Constantinople. The courts-martial officially disbanded the CUP and confiscated its assets, and the assets of those found guilty. The courts-martial were dismissed in August, 1920 for their impartiality and lack of transparence, according to then High Commissioner and Admiral Sir John de Robeck,[86] and some of the accused were transported to Malta for further interrogation. At least two of the three Pashas were later assassinated by Armenian vigilantes. [emphasis added] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhangel Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Yes. Like many terrible crimes, political power grants the perpetrators not only impunity, but also the ability to pretend that it was never a crime to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If mere criticism of Turkey is a crime, would they really acknowledge the crimes of their forefathers ? Especially (as much as it hurts to say this) if it means that the heirs of the Ottoman Empire must apologise to a country and people like Armenia ? (This is actually a logic that some use to justify Turkey)That's another problem here.It happened centuries ago, and to the Armenians, who have no sort of international "pull" what so ever. I don't think any country will bother taking their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 I believe 23 countries have acknowledged the Genocide. US papers at the time were full of stories about the Genocide. US officals in Turkey when it was taking place issued reports on what happened. The Turkish Governement either denies it happened or claims it doesn't fit the modern definition of Genocide. It's very disingenious. Arkhangel, Does the US deny that it dropped nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? the US government will claim it was justified but it doesn't deny that it happened. Regardless, I'd prefer that this thread not be derailed with comparative arguments. The Armenian genocide happened 100 years ago. It needs to be acknowledged and remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Yes. Like many terrible crimes, political power grants the perpetrators not only impunity, but also the ability to pretend that it was never a crime to begin with. Except America is routinely criticised for it. Hell, I am one of those people who have been saying Hiroshima and Nagasaki are as bad as the Holoclaust and must be regarded as such. What Turkey is doing is claiming that they were "relocating" the Armenians and they just happened to die in millions during this. And punishing anybody who says otherwise. EDIT : Oh and best part - they were relocating the Armenians in the middle of a fucking desert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 TKIB, No, they relocated the Armenians to the middle of a fucking desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I believe 23 countries have acknowledged the Genocide. US papers at the time were full of stories about the Genocide. US officals in Turkey when it was taking place issued reports on what happened. The Turkish Governement either denies it happened or claims it doesn't fit the modern definition of Genocide. It's very disingenious. Arkhangel, Does the US deny that it dropped nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? the US government will claim it was justified but it doesn't deny that it happened. Regardless, I'd prefer that this thread not be derailed with comparative arguments. The Armenian genocide happened 100 years ago. It needs to be acknowledged and remembered. Germany recently joined the list too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yNt7XsV-Dg Obama, who can't allow himself to utter the word 'genocide' nowadays, back in 2008 campaigned among the American Armenian population on the grounds that he would recognize the Armenian genocide if he got elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 This march is taking place in Stockholm today. Sorry to say the current (new) prime minister is wobbling on recognising the genocide. I have no clue why that is. It seems this government did as Obama did <_< The parliament has already voted for recognising the genocide, back in 2010, overruling the government position at the time. It was the current government that then as opposition pushed the proposition through too, so it's kind of disturbing that this is now a matter of controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 I wish more nations had the courage necessary to stand up to the Turkish government on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I wish more nations had the courage necessary to stand up to the Turkish government on this issue. Yeah, me too. (Just to add: it flies in the face of our government's standards so far. The first thing they did was to recognise Palestine when they took over governing, and they took the hit for openly criticising Saudi Arabia) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 You better wish there are no Turkish Board Members here. You are, after all, 'insulting Turkishness'. I don't think you got it. I am merely pointing out that the Turkish Government actually files criminal charges against those who acknowledge the genocide on the grounds of 'Insulting Turkishness', which as bizzare as it sounds is actually a real thing. It's a good thing you've started this thread and I'm positively surprised by the lack of posts- but that might mostly be because most people don't know about it. After all many nations don't formally recognize it, for Turkey might throw a childish fit. After all, those people just died during "relocation" and it was only an "unfortunate consequence of war." Are these posts supposed to bait Turkish posters? This shit is exactly why you'll end up having people bring up other countries' atrocities as comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Straits,Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, and Dresden were war crimes. American behavior toward aboriginal North Americans was Genocide. Will I be arrested and charged with a crime for publicly saying these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesy Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Nagasaki, Dresden, and possibly Hiroshima I understand. But why do you believe the bombing of Tokyo was a war crime? Despite the horrific casualties, that was essentially the campaign that finished Japan. ETA: PM if you'd like to not derail your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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